Feather and egg colors in EE, Ameraucana, & Araucana?

[lh123]

Ah, I have reread your post, I didn’t realize you were wanting blue, not green.

You get green when you have a blue shell that gets covered in brown pigment.

I’ve never heard anything about double lacing traveling with the brown egg gene, (in I assume would be in a similar way to the way the pea comb gene and blue egg gene usually travel on the same chromosome.) but I am not too well versed in the world of genetics to know for sure.

If I was to breed them intentionally I'd prefer to start aiming for blue. I'd be happy with some green laying hens.

DarJones said the barring comes from a project breeding with Silver Wyandots. The SW lay brown eggs. Maybe or maybe not the barred hens have more of a tendency towards green even if the genes are not connected. IDK. I'm guessing that project wasn't finished or didn't have good results. Otherwise I'd be really happy to find the offspring! Also, Honestly, I don't know single barring from double barring. Will have to look at more pictures.

 

[DarJones]

Columbian is the name of a gene that causes reverse color next to the rachis of a feather. Look up Delaware chickens and pay attention to the neck and hackle feathers. That is a good example of the effect of Columbian.

The combination of Columbian plus Melanotic plus Pattern genes is what makes single lacing as in Silver Laced Wyandottes. If you take away the Columbian gene, the combination of Pattern and Melanotic gives a double laced effect similar to the EE chicken posted. I have a couple of double laced chickens which just means that I have not yet stabilized Columbian in the breeding population.

My birds lay blue eggs. That is what I have been working to achieve since 2013. I want single laced Silver Laced Wyandottes that lay large blue eggs. This means I have a lot of work to do to reduce the influence of the porphyrin genes. In other words, I have to turn off the brown pigment that causes olive eggs. I have two genes in my birds to do this. The first is the intense white gene from the blue egg laying Brown Leghorn parent. The second is the disabled porphyrin biopath again from the Brown Leghorn parents. The genetics involved are complex but I am very close to having a stable breeding line that looks like Silver Laced Wyandotte and lays blue eggs. Along the way, I had to go through a phase with a lot of hens that look like Golden Laced Wyandottes but laying blue eggs.

 

[lh123]

Columbian is the name of a gene that causes reverse color next to the rachis of a feather. Look up Delaware chickens and pay attention to the neck and hackle feathers. That is a good example of the effect of Columbian.

The combination of Columbian plus Melanotic plus Pattern genes is what makes single lacing as in Silver Laced Wyandottes. If you take away the Columbian gene, the combination of Pattern and Melanotic gives a double laced effect similar to the EE chicken posted. I have a couple of double laced chickens which just means that I have not yet stabilized Columbian in the breeding population.

My birds lay blue eggs. That is what I have been working to achieve since 2013. I want single laced Silver Laced Wyandottes that lay large blue eggs. This means I have a lot of work to do to reduce the influence of the porphyrin genes. In other words, I have to turn off the brown pigment that causes olive eggs. I have two genes in my birds to do this. The first is the intense white gene from the blue egg laying Brown Leghorn parent. The second is the disabled porphyrin biopath again from the Brown Leghorn parents. The genetics involved are complex but I am very close to having a stable breeding line that looks like Silver Laced Wyandotte and lays blue eggs. Along the way, I had to go through a phase with a lot of hens that look like Golden Laced Wyandottes but laying blue eggs.

Wow, would love to see some of your chickens! That's a really nice standard for color that you've set.

& thank you! I did look at pics of the Delaware. I'll be checking your past posts in other threads as well when I have time. You're very knowledgeable.

What happened to the Golden ones that laid blue eggs? Did you or anyone else breed them? Even in the backyard? At some point would love to get even just a rooster with that consistancy in it's genes. That is a lot of work. I wouldn't care about the Columbian gene or not, personally. I think both are equally pretty. I think I slightly prefer the Columbian there.

By Brown Leghorns, do you mean the brown ones which start off laying blue eggs? I've seen those referred to as Cream Leghorns, but most online look pretty brown to me. I was thinking of the possibility of useing a Cream Leghorn as a rooster but haven't read up enough about them yet.

 

[EmmaRainboe]

I've seen those referred to as Cream Leghorns,

I think you’re probably thinking of cream legbars. Legbars are a separate breed. Though leghorns were used in the creation.

 

[lh123]

I think you’re probably thinking of cream legbars. Legbars are a separate breed. Though leghorns were used in the creation.

You're right, thank you. My bad.

 

[lh123]

Columbian is the name of a gene that causes reverse color next to the rachis of a feather. Look up Delaware chickens and pay attention to the neck and hackle feathers. That is a good example of the effect of Columbian.

The combination of Columbian plus Melanotic plus Pattern genes is what makes single lacing as in Silver Laced Wyandottes. If you take away the Columbian gene, the combination of Pattern and Melanotic gives a double laced effect similar to the EE chicken posted. I have a couple of double laced chickens which just means that I have not yet stabilized Columbian in the breeding population.

My birds lay blue eggs. That is what I have been working to achieve since 2013. I want single laced Silver Laced Wyandottes that lay large blue eggs. This means I have a lot of work to do to reduce the influence of the porphyrin genes. In other words, I have to turn off the brown pigment that causes olive eggs. I have two genes in my birds to do this. The first is the intense white gene from the blue egg laying Brown Leghorn parent. The second is the disabled porphyrin biopath again from the Brown Leghorn parents. The genetics involved are complex but I am very close to having a stable breeding line that looks like Silver Laced Wyandotte and lays blue eggs. Along the way, I had to go through a phase with a lot of hens that look like Golden Laced Wyandottes but laying blue eggs.

I just found a post of yours with lots of pics of your chickens. Wow, they are looking good. Nice work!

 

[DarJones]

Did you or anyone else breed them?

My daughter kept a dozen or so of the golden laced hens. I still have about 30% of each hatch show up as golden laced so there is no shortage if I chose to develop a golden laced blue egg layer. I have over 100 chicks hatched so far this year and at least 30 or 40 of them will be golden laced. Keep in mind that I can use a silver laced rooster on golden laced hens and hatch beautiful silver laced chicks. The only change I would have to make is to keep a few golden laced roosters and set up a separate breeding pen.

 

[lh123]

Emma, actually, the type of color & pattern I like looks much closer to the wild Red Jungle fowl hens than the Wyandot. To me anyway. I think the confusion is my misunderstanding of what "barring" or "lacing" is. I'm not familiar with pattern terminology.
https://what-when-how.com/birds/red-junglefowl-birds/
So, I guess this is what people refer to when they say they are trying to breed away from wild type coloring. I think they're really pretty.

 

[lh123]

My daughter kept a dozen or so of the golden laced hens. I still have about 30% of each hatch show up as golden laced so there is no shortage if I chose to develop a golden laced blue egg layer. I have over 100 chicks hatched so far this year and at least 30 or 40 of them will be golden laced. Keep in mind that I can use a silver laced rooster on golden laced hens and hatch beautiful silver laced chicks. The only change I would have to make is to keep a few golden laced roosters and set up a separate breeding pen.

I think if you are considering marketing the birds as a breed then you should. 2ce the audience. If you have the resources. And why not market them as a breed? I think they'd be very popular. Very pretty birds and blue eggers are popular. You might get a few silver in the gold lines and less line breeding too.

I looked last night at some stuff and realized that the color and pattern I like is actually more similar to the wild type Red Jungle fowl hen. https://what-when-how.com/birds/red-junglefowl-birds/ just possibly a bit more gold than most of them. That picture looks more gold than others I've seen, but is pretty common. I think the confusion is my not knowing pattern terminology.

Also read both studies proposing a viral remnant (or damage?) into a certain place in the chicken DNA that could cause blue eggs by increasing bile secretion. I'm assuming you've read them as you know a lot about genetics. I only understand the plain English parts of the studies- so maybe 85%, but it does raise a lot of questions. If true (likely) then might there be a limit to the blueness without harming the chicken? And, if the sequence places in the Chinese vs Machupan chicken lines are just slightly off, would breeding them together enhance things or just make the same sequence's place slightly wonky? & yes, a little impractical as the Chinese ones are not readily available.. Is there a thread here discussing the studies that I could read?

Also, looking at a previous study by the same group of scientists which says the viral insertion is common in chickens and predates domestication in many lines. The difference is in placement of that sequence. Most of them aren't near the place they propose to be the cause of blue eggs. How probable do you think their proposal of that virus's placement being the cause of blue eggs do you think? Personally? I don't think it's 100% odds.

I have too much time on my hands this week, obviously..

EDIT: I think I found the thread discussing this

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Oh! and silver laced wyandottes lay brown eggs so if there is any blue it would be much more likely that hens with that color variation with lay green. Sigh. Oh well, I guess that answers why that variation isn't bred in Amercaunas.

@DarJones said their double laced birds were the result of crossing in wyandottes- not the picture off the internet. That coloring is common in hatchery EEs, as @EmmaRainboe said, and is the result of EE x EE crosses, since hatcheries don’t breed their wyandottes and EEs together.