Feathering Genetics

[Chocoboko]

I don't believe Silkies were ever a part of the Genetic Hackle breeding program. The Silkie gene being recessive, it either makes completely hookless feathering or splits with completely normal feathering.
But my Genetic Hackle show an in-between state. It's like the hooks come apart very easy. But they can still groom or settle them smooth. So it seems like a different genetic basis.

Sorry I'm late coming back to this but for the life of me I couldn't remember who I had heard it about and had to do a search. Pretty sure it was referring to Dr. Tom Whiting when he started breeding his own line of genetic hackles specifically for his fly-tying business. I believe the point was not to create hookless feathers but splits to introduce the gene to soften the feathers of his birds and make them more supple to create the fly ties.

 

[SourRoses]

Sorry I'm late coming back to this but for the life of me I couldn't remember who I had heard it about and had to do a search. Pretty sure it was referring to Dr. Tom Whiting when he started breeding his own line of genetic hackles specifically for his fly-tying business. I believe the point was not to create hookless feathers but splits to introduce the gene to soften the feathers of his birds and make them more supple to create the fly ties.

Understandable. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there.
Since silkie feathering is a recessive, it would keep showing up in full as the birds are bred together.
I haven't heard of anyone in the Genetic Hackle Fowl community having silkied fowl pop up.
There are two main groups of Genetic Hackle fowl. The 4 most impressive lines were snatched up by Mr. Whiting many years ago. They had been in development since the 50's and were zealously hoarded by flytie companies, so the lines had some marked differences. The owners all aged out around the same time, and that's when Whiting took the opportunity to buy them out. He did some crosses between them, but kept at least two of the lines pure.

The rest of the lines fell into the hands of private breeders, there is a good group on FB for those working on them if you are interested.
According to what I've read, there must be a different genetic basis for the barbicel differences in a GHF feather.

 

[Chocoboko]

Understandable. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there.
Since silkie feathering is a recessive, it would keep showing up in full as the birds are bred together.

Not to mention all the other silkie traits that would potentially pop up: crest, muff/beard, extra toes, fibro...

I haven't heard of anyone in the Genetic Hackle Fowl community having silkied fowl pop up.

What I had heard was specific to Whiting's lines, not a generalized GHF community breeding strategy, so not hearing about it popping up in other lines doesn't completely rule it out unless they acquired birds from him. Since it's a fly-tie business I highly doubt he shares any of his genes to prevent competition, so who knows what random things pop up in his flocks and are culled.

Not saying that this is a fact, it could very much be misinformation like you said. It's just something he'd only be able to verify, really, unless someone else has birds from his lines.

According to what I've read, there must be a different genetic basis for the barbicel differences in a GHF feather.

That's actually what I was wondering when I brought it up! If the silkie info was true was there another gene possibly associated with the hookless gene that affects the rachis? One that was possibly semi dominant or even dominant that left the recessive hookless gene easier to breed out? I'm almost certain it was the rachis of the feather that was specifically mentioned, I believe it prevented twisting or made it more malleable or something along those lines when being made into fly-ties.
Do silkies even show that trait to begin with?
Honestly I know nothing of fly-fishing so I have no clue what feather traits are ideal for fly-tying. I just know genetic hackle fowl are beautiful birds! Love the picture you included.

 

[NatJ]

Not to mention all the other silkie traits that would potentially pop up: crest, muff/beard, extra toes, fibro...

Every one of those involves a dominant gene. Once those traits are bred out, they will not come back unless someone re-introduces them to the line.

But since the Silkie hookless trait is recessive, it could hide in a line of chickens for a long time, and pop up in 1/4 of chicks every time two carries are bred to each other.

 

[NagemTX]

Found some better pictures of Dean. His hackles and saddles where very long, I think his tail would have eventually caught up but I ended up selling him due to still too many roosters to hens. He was also getting an attitude where King was not. Still he was the better bird expression wise of the longer feathers.

 

[MysteryChicken]

silkies being incorporated into breeding programs to improve feather quality in types such as the genetic hackle.

There is a Silkied variety of Genetic Hackle. They seem to use a multitude of breeds in their lines.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Here's a video with a glimpse of the Silkied ones.

 

[NagemTX]

There are some interesting videos on this.

 

[SourRoses]

There is a Silkied variety of Genetic Hackle. They seem to use a multitude of breeds in their lines.

Long before any outcrossing, the floating characteristics of GHF feathers were attained with simple selection for better feathers.
Whiting may do some cross breeding and things to increase his sales, but it doesn't say a lot about the actual breed of Genetic Hackle Fowl.
I say this knowing that GHF are not officially a breed, but a purpose bred type. Still, if the goal was already achieved consistently (and he did get hold of the very best lines), and the type breeds relatively true, it makes sense to just think of them as a breed.

 

[SourRoses]

Found some better pictures of Dean. His hackles and saddles where very long, I think his tail would have eventually caught up but I ended up selling him due to still too many roosters to hens. He was also getting an attitude where King was not. Still he was the better bird expression wise of the longer feathers.

Both King and Dean are beautiful! It's a shame Dean got an attitude, he does look really nice.
It's cool how the Pheonix have such long saddles and hackles. They were one of the breeds used to make GHF way back. It would be awesome to combine the two to get long tails as well... I remember you floated that idea last year and I always wanted to see it.

One thing that interests me is feather width. When I raised a big gang of GHF in '22, some had hackle feathers as wide as Dean there. Others had a superfine hair like appearance. I ended up choosing one of those to keep as I realized his overall feather count was higher with the thin feathers.
I wish I'd gotten a closeup picture when I still had him, as his feathers here are kind of blending together, but not a one was wider than 1/8 inch.