Feed Management Methods [Poll]

[Shadrach]

Shadrach, may I remind you, back on one of the first pages, you pointed out that the percentages didn't add, and I responded both that I didn't write thee program that generates the percentages (its part of the built in poll on this website), AND that it divides the number of answers in any category by the number of voters, NOT the total number of votes. and since some voters maintain multiple flocks under multiple methods, they voted more than once.

That is still true.

and the next poll will help to dial in some info about the quality of grounds on which poultry range - that wasn't the point of this one. Though I still think we can make some assumptions about typical grounds - and the poll will either bear that out, or show them to be mistaken.

Do you think you could post the algorithm math so I can see how it works?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I don't understand how you have come to this conclusion.
It would help as I mentioned earlier in the thread if you number the options then we only have to type A) B) and so on.
I need to know which option you are refering to.
Take the first option. It's received 51 votes out of the total
"My flock is kept in a secure house and run substantially all day, every day."
This then is the only option for people who don't let their chickens out of the coop and run.
Every other option involves time out of the coop and run.
The total number of votes is 154.

I can't A B C - the poll can't be edited.

51 votes is "not at all"

the next two, "I sometimes let them out weekly for a few hours, [space choice]", 33 votes, is "not often"

the next two, "a few hours daily, [space choice]", 21 votes, is "not for long"

105 is more than half of 156. A majority of flocks are not at all, not often, or not for long.

As Samuel Clemens is claimed to have said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".
Stats allow you to say true things in ways that may invite erroneous conclusions - its all in how you slice the data.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Do you think you could post the algorithm math so I can see how it works?

I assume it is something close to "Votes in Category" / "Total Voters" = % , then some rounding function is applied.

So 51/156 = 33.33333[repeating], which is then displayed as 33.3 (first answer)

But if you add all the categories up, because there are more votes than voters, you end up with more than 100%. (currently 119.2%)

And as a check on what I think its doing, there are currently 186 votes, and 156 voters. 186/156 = 1.192 Expressed as a percent, that's 119.2%.

So yeah, I've got a clue as to what its doing, and where it gets its figures from.

No, I was NOT given the choice to display percentages based on total votes cast.

 

[Shadrach]

I can't A B C - the poll can't be edited.

51 votes is "not at all"

the next two, "I sometimes let them out weekly for a few hours, [space choice]", 33 votes, is "not often"

the next two, "a few hours daily", 21 votes, is "not for long"

105 is more than half of 156. A majority of flocks are not at all, not often, or not for long.

As Samuel Clemens is claimed to have said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics".
Stats allow you to say true things in ways that may invite erroneous conclusions - its all in how you slice the data.

51 votes is "not at all" .
No problem with this.

the next two, "I sometimes let them out weekly for a few hours, [space choice]", 33 votes, is "not often"
Nope, you don't know what the value of a few hours is.
The point is, they are not in the coop and run.

the next two, "a few hours daily", 21 votes, is "not for long"
Nope, can't do this either.. It's a few hours daily. Not, not for long. We don't know how many hours. It needs a value.
The point is, they are still out of the coop and run.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

51 votes is "not at all" .
No problem with this.

the next two, "I sometimes let them out weekly for a few hours, [space choice]", 33 votes, is "not often"
Nope, you don't know what the value of a few hours is.
The point is, they are not in the coop and run.

the next two, "a few hours daily", 21 votes, is "not for long"
Nope, can't do this either.. It's a few hours daily. Not, not for long. We don't know how many hours. It needs a value.
The point is, they are still out of the coop and run.

The other answers foreclose it being greater than 4 hours, and it could be as few as a handful of minutes daily. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius. There are 24 hours in a day. Less than four divided by 24 is less than 1/6th - not for long.

These are relative terms, and some admittedly arbitrary line drawing. Most would agree, however that a "few" is a small number. A few days vacation in a year is not long. Even a few days vacation in a month would be called "not long" - or most people working 9-5 would call the weekends their vacation days - they get more of those each week than birds free ranging less than 4 hours get as a percentage of the day.

Treating any amount of time outside the coop and run as equal is a mistake. Is less than 4 hours better than nothing? Yes, most likely. Is it as good as more than 8? Probably not.

In any event, I did not say the majority of flocks spent no time out of the run - that's clearly untrue. Do not put your misunderstanding in my mouth. It tastes bad.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

...and to the extent you want to qualify the value of time out of run - that's not the point of this poll.

This poll was to determine (broadly), how much time was being spent out of the run , and how much space might be available to the birds during that time.

Future polls will try to dial in the quality of those items (on average), the current poll only seeks some broad measure of quantity.

 

[Shadrach]

In any event, I did not say the majority of flocks spent no time out of the run - that's clearly untrue.

So you agree that the majority of flocks are not kept fully confined?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So you agree that the majority of flocks are not kept fully confined?

I never said otherwise.

 

[Shadrach]

I never said otherwise.

Excellent.
Now it's a question of area and forage quality and what impact this may have

Some years ago I became curious about the free range eating habits of the chickens I looked after.
I estimated an average hen needs her crop to go from full to empty three times a day to consume by volume the standard recommended 100 grams of commercial feed per day. You can feel a few full crops to get an idea of the approximate volume.
These chickens ranged on year long varied forage including a food waste compost pile, donky middens, sheep droppings, mixed grass and woodland.
They got commercial feed as well.
I found it took a hen around an hour to an hour and a half to fill her crop when foraging. It only takes a few minutes when they are fed three times a day with commercial feed.
You could measure this for yourself with some of your hens perhaps, although I've read you don't believe the forage where you are is of good quality.
That's about a third of her daily intake.
This may have some implications about the value of the contribution of forage to overall diet.

Take a grass pasture. The chickens don't just eat the grass, they eat little bugs, spider nests, decaying vegetable matter etc etc.
I've looked for Dept of Agriculture analysis of various pastures and they only deal with the vegitation. Anything on or below the ground is ignored. Chickens eat some of that ignored stuff.
Maybe you can find better studies.

 

[Iluveggers]

The other answers foreclose it being greater than 4 hours, and it could be as few as a handful of minutes daily. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius. There are 24 hours in a day. Less than four divided by 24 is less than 1/6th - not for long.

I just want to say that whether 4 hours is long or short is relative to the expected activity. For example, I spend 4 hours driving to and from work daily would probably be thought of as a long time. I get 4 hours of sleep at night would be thought of as a short time. 4 hours of exercise daily seems excessive for most people. 4 hours at work daily is a short time to have to work. 4 hours to eat dinner…super long.

If one group of chickens gets to free range for 30 minutes every night, and then gets 4 hours on the weekend of range time, it would probably feel like a long time. If they usually free range but one day “only” get out for 4 hours, it would seem short.