Feed recommendation

[TheStooges]

Thank you. MUCH Better. Good protein, but not high enough to be an "angel wing" concern for ducks or geese. You did have ducks or geese, right? I'm in four virtually identical threads tonight, the individual flocks are running together on me. Upper end of fiber, but within the accepted range. Still a little high on fat, not a bad thing if you are raising meaties or dual purpose, not so high as to be an overall negative across the flock. Again, no niacin levels listed (this is typical across the industry, its mostly concerning if you have ducks or geese). 1% calcium+/- is very reasonable, and typical of this sort of feed. Methionine is, again, bottom of the accepted range, and lower than recommended for birds prior to point of lay - which is what "Starter" is ostensibly designed for. The target should be .5% to .55%

Thank you! Yes I have ducks and geese but am used to supplementing for them so I don’t mind doing that. But now I’m wondering if it’s worth switching from our flock raiser. I liked that it’s non gmo, local, etc. but I guess it just doesn’t seem like a better option in the long run. I appreciate you explaining it all to me so I can make an informed decision

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Well, now you can place your All Flock label next to it, and compare. Fresh is definitely a net positive. Local and non-GMO have whatever value you assign them. They aren't important to me, but my main egg buyer is willing to pay a premium for non-GMO, so non-GMO is what I buy. The moment he stops buying flats of eggs from me each week, I 'll change feeds to another mill, also fresh, also local, a few pennies per pound cheaper (my flock is in my sig, below) - the difference adds up pretty quick.

For reference, my local non-GMO feed is 18% protein (lower than I would like) and was $14.85/50# bag, last I picked up 10 bags of the stuff. A bit more when I buy in smaller quantity. My local (don't ask about GMO) feed, for comparison is a little over $13/50# bag and is 20% protein, which definitely makes a difference in my growing birds for early size and weight gain.

and on that note, I'm glad I've been at least a little bit helpful, and I think I'm going to call it an evening. Very best to you on your chicken journey!

Oh, targets...

The usual figures ar 18-20% protein, 3.5% fiber +/- (this is subject to a lot of variation in the literature, where it is rarely the focus), 3.5% +/- fat (again, subject to some variation, but generally no higher than 5% or 6% for cornish cross being raised for weight gain *not health* in expectation of an 8 week processing date). Lysine levels, depending on type and age, range from 0.7% to 1.3%, I look for at least 0.9%, and Methionine from 0.3% to 0.6% (briefly, 0.7% for some birds immediately after hatch - you just don't find that level in most feed, good natural sources of methionine are rare), I try and find 0.5% or better. If your feed got those things right, they usually get the others correct too.

Calcium levels and phosphorus levels (they are related) are a whole nother conversation, but for most, targeting a 1% calcium +/- with free choice oyster shell is the safe and effective answer. Higher levels are flock (type, age, gender) and management specific.

 

[TheStooges]

Well, now you can place your All Flock label next to it, and compare. Fresh is definitely a net positive. Local and non-GMO have whatever value you assign them. They aren't important to me, but my main egg buyer is willing to pay a premium for non-GMO, so non-GMO is what I buy. The moment he stops buying flats of eggs from me each week, I 'll change feeds to another mill, also fresh, also local, a few pennies per pound cheaper (my flock is in my sig, below) - the difference adds up pretty quick.

For reference, my local non-GMO feed is 18% protein (lower than I would like) and was $14.85/50# bag, last I picked up 10 bags of the stuff. A bit more when I buy in smaller quantity. My local (don't ask about GMO) feed, for comparison is a little over $13/50# bag and is 20% protein, which definitely makes a difference in my growing birds for early size and weight gain.

and on that note, I'm glad I've been at least a little bit helpful, and I think I'm going to call it an evening. Very best to you on your chicken journey!

Oh, targets...

The usual figures ar 18-20% protein, 3.5% fiber +/- (this is subject to a lot of variation in the literature, where it is rarely the focus), 3.5% +/- fat (again, subject to some variation, but generally no higher than 5% or 6% for cornish cross being raised for weight gain *not health* in expectation of an 8 week processing date). Lysine levels, depending on type and age, range from 0.7% to 1.3%, I look for at least 0.9%, and Methionine from 0.3% to 0.6% (briefly, 0.7% for some birds immediately after hatch - you just don't find that level in most feed, good natural sources of methionine are rare), I try and find 0.5% or better. If your feed got those things right, they usually get the others correct too.

Calcium levels and phosphorus levels (they are related) are a whole nother conversation, but for most, targeting a 1% calcium +/- with free choice oyster shell is the safe and effective answer. Higher levels are flock (type, age, gender) and management specific.

I am very appreciative of your help!!

 

[saysfaa]

https://the-fertrell-company.myshop.../products/poultry-show-and-breeder-supplement

None of their standard options have selenium or note whether the salt is iodinated, both of which are deficient in large areas of the US. Possibly they have other options for b2b or custom mixes? Otherwise it looks like they are more concerned with nonGMO than with seriously formulating their mix.

Hm, "large areas" including your area for selenium https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html

The goiter belt map I found without looking very hard isn't very precise; it swoops down maybe that far south and maybe not. If they use locally grown ingredients.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

They are using the Fertrell Mioneral Package - assuming they mean Fertrell's Nutribalancer, it has a guaranteed source of selenium. Molasses is also a selenium source, but without knowing where its grown, and how its refined, that's a big question mark on what is normally a pretty poor (but not 0) source.

 

[saysfaa]

I see that now (fuzzy brain earlier, I guess). I don't think they depending on the molasses.

I found their sales page - I'm interested in the vastly different amounts of selenium for different species. I'd been starting to wonder how interchangable mineral mixes are (except the copper, of cource). Too many other things to do to get very far on this topic since I don't have to.

I also like their trace minerals for gardens. This is just starting to be researched - like at the growth and yield in a lab stage. I think we will eventually find out it makes a lot of difference in disease/pest resistance in plants as well as animals. Have you sent those soil samples in yet?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I see that now (fuzzy brain earlier, I guess). I don't think they depending on the molasses.

I found their sales page - I'm interested in the vastly different amounts of selenium for different species. I'd been starting to wonder how interchangable mineral mixes are (except the copper, of cource). Too many other things to do to get very far on this topic since I don't have to.

I also like their trace minerals for gardens. This is just starting to be researched - like at the growth and yield in a lab stage. I think we will eventually find out it makes a lot of difference in disease/pest resistance too. Have you sent those soil samples in yet?

I've not been into town.

and yes, I wouldn't rely on the molasses, either!