Feeling Very Guilty...Need Advice

[DoeAndGander]

Hi, thank you for your reply and kind words. I am being as proactive as I can (I think?!). I've called 5 vets and the earliest I could get in was July 15, all the other offices were full until August. I asked for phone/Zoom consultations with no luck either. I'm calling around to a few trainers today to see if they can do an emergency home consultation, since I can't take him to any of their facilities without vaccinations/neutering. My brother and sister-in-law have a rescued Golden Retriever that is a nice dog, but has absolutely DESTROYED their house because of separation anxiety (despite trying 3 trainers, medication, therapies, doggie day care, consistent/daily exercise, etc.) and I don't want that to happen to our house. If we did all the training/behavior/etc. with the dog, and nothing improves and I have to keep them separated at all times, I think I can live with that, but it seems so far off and impossible to achieve at this point.

A little off subject but if they have yet to find a crate that works for their extreme separation anxiety dog, let me know! I have a lot of experience with separation anxiety

 

[lbgreenfield]

This Covid junk screws up everything doesn't it? What's his name? Got a pic?

Hang in there! There is an adjustment period for all of you but it'll get easier. I keep my dogs limited to a small yard when my flock is out. There's a doggy door so they can go outside whenever they want but can't get to the flock. Is that a possible option? This allows them to see me and be outside with me in a way but not interact with the flock directly.
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Cute doggies! We already have about 0.5 acres of our property fenced with a 4-ft high metal and wooden fence that is about 25 yards from the coop/run, but he's been able to climb over it to chase rabbits or to stay right next to me. He doesn't know any commands/training, so it's hard to control him if he escapes or pulls the leash out of my hand. He's a good dog if it's just me and him (or if he's at least with someone), but as soon as you leave for ~10 seconds, he goes into panic mode. I'm sure this is because he went from an abusive home, to a concrete dog pound, to 2 humans who are actually nice/loving/good people.

I don't know what would be worse, keeping him and hopefully training him to be a better dog with no guarantees (and keeping the chickens in their pen or with limited free range time for the remainder of their lives) or to take him back to the dog pound where he'll staying in a concrete kennel for who knows how long. I'm feeling so guilty with everything.

 

[Viksceeks]

I definitely think it's best to make sure your chickens are secure and away from the dog. We have a 5m old pup and she has a very strong prey drive. The chickens are out of reach and confined in a large run with 6ftfencing. They may not like it now but it could save their lives
We had dogs with an incredible prey drive and they killed so many we ended up getting rid of all birds while having them. Then we had a neighbor dog come into my yard and kill all but 2. So it might not even be your dog you're protecting them from
Also, it takes months for a dog to make your house its home

 

[igorsMistress]

Cute doggies! We already have about 0.5 acres of our property fenced with a 4-ft high metal and wooden fence that is about 25 yards from the coop/run, but he's been able to climb over it to chase rabbits or to stay right next to me. He doesn't know any commands/training, so it's hard to control him if he escapes or pulls the leash out of my hand. He's a good dog if it's just me and him (or if he's at least with someone), but as soon as you leave for ~10 seconds, he goes into panic mode. I'm sure this is because he went from an abusive home, to a concrete dog pound, to 2 humans who are actually nice/loving/good people.

I don't know what would be worse, keeping him and hopefully training him to be a better dog with no guarantees (and keeping the chickens in their pen or with limited free range time for the remainder of their lives) or to take him back to the dog pound where he'll staying in a concrete kennel for who knows how long. I'm feeling so guilty with everything.

I understand your guilt. You've done a wonderful thing by rescuing this guy and it will take time for him to get used to your style of living and to settle in. An area in that sectioned off space that's fully enclosed would prevent him from getting out.

In the meantime train him every time you're given the opportunity to do so, there's no need to wait for a class. Give him a command and as soon as he does the command praise him immediately. Start with the basics like no or sit, then add other things. We don't treat our dogs for doing as they're told, just tell them they're good but we had to use treats when they were puppies to get the training going. Then we added petting and hugs and backed off the treats. Be gentle and if you find yourself getting frustrated it's time to stop. This will all help him and you by helping you bond and he needs to know there are rules. Potty training is another way...lots of good boy and some love when he goes outside and a firm no when he goes inside and tell him he's bad. He'll learn the rules and your language.

One more thing... I can't say enough about having toys and a bone to chew. He needs mental stimulation and physical interaction. With that big open space and energy to play maybe he'd enjoy chasing a ball or a frisbee. We buy marrow bones from the butcher for our pups and when it rains or is too hot to get out for their walk the bones take the edge off their boredom. Perhaps a bone to chew in his crate while you're out with the flock would help calm him. You can also try sleeping with a blanket for a day or two so it smells like you and put that in his crate.

I sure hope it works out for you all!

 

[lbgreenfield]

I understand your guilt. You've done a wonderful thing by rescuing this guy and it will take time for him to get used to your style of living and to settle in. An area in that sectioned off space that's fully enclosed would prevent him from getting out.

In the meantime train him every time you're given the opportunity to do so, there's no need to wait for a class. Give him a command and as soon as he does the command praise him immediately. Start with the basics like no or sit, then add other things. We don't treat our dogs for doing as they're told, just tell them they're good but we had to use treats when they were puppies to get the training going. Then we added petting and hugs and backed off the treats. Be gentle and if you find yourself getting frustrated it's time to stop. This will all help him and you by helping you bond and he needs to know there are rules. Potty training is another way...lots of good boy and some love when he goes outside and a firm no when he goes inside and tell him he's bad. He'll learn the rules and your language.

One more thing... I can't say enough about having toys and a bone to chew. He needs mental stimulation and physical interaction. With that big open space and energy to play maybe he'd enjoy chasing a ball or a frisbee. We buy marrow bones from the butcher for our pups and when it rains or is too hot to get out for their walk the bones take the edge off their boredom. Perhaps a bone to chew in his crate while you're out with the flock would help calm him. You can also try sleeping with a blanket for a day or two so it smells like you and put that in his crate.

I sure hope it works out for you all!

Yes, I've slowly been trying to teach him to "Sit" but it's very, very slow going. He did actually go to the bathroom outside this morning and I gave him lots of GOOD BOY!!! praise so that was a plus this morning. When we got him, I placed multiple worn t-shirts on his dog bed, in his crate, places I know he likes to lay, and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I've posted reply to another person, but I've tried every single toy there is known to man with him and he's just not interested at this point (chew toys, squeaky toys, tennis balls, ropes, plain and peanut butter stuffed kongs, puzzle toys, Frisbee, etc.). I honestly think he doesn't know how to play, but I'm hoping he will learn. I haven't tried bones yet, that might help when he's in the crate.

I will keep trying with him and will try to spend time with the chickens this evening while they free range un-supervised for an hour or so. The girls will be so excited to be out of the pen tonight!!

 

[lbgreenfield]

I definitely think it's best to make sure your chickens are secure and away from the dog. We have a 5m old pup and she has a very strong prey drive. The chickens are out of reach and confined in a large run with 6ftfencing. They may not like it now but it could save their lives
We had dogs with an incredible prey drive and they killed so many we ended up getting rid of all birds while having them. Then we had a neighbor dog come into my yard and kill all but 2. So it might not even be your dog you're protecting them from
Also, it takes months for a dog to make your house its home

I agree about keeping them separate, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if the dog injured/killed one of my chickens. I just think it's unfair for all of sudden to have the chickens cooped up in their run/coop until who knows when, so that's why I feel so guilty.

 

[aart]

I almost took my last shelter dog back, things did not go well with my existing dog.
The shelter talked me down, gave me some tips, and we worked it out.
He ended up being the best of all my 3 dogs.

Hang in there

 

[Folly's place]

Any new dog is going to be a real risk to your chickens!
You did pick a sweet guy, who hasn't had a good life, and he is going to be a challenge. This is a marathon, not going to be fixed in two weeks, so TRY to relax and think LONG HAUL, but worth it.
Every interaction is a training interaction! He's smart, stressed, and looking for direction, and that's you. He's also, if actually the breeds mentioned, going to have that very high prey drive, and very high need for exercise, and walking on lead isn't enough. Too bad you don't train for marathons! A tired dog is a good dog...
Actually, if you do have a friend who runs, maybe they would like a running buddy, and could take him out for you. Dog parks, maybe, but they can be danger zones, especially with a new dog who's not really bonded to you yet. And off lead except within fencing, no way!
One of my rescue dogs couldn't be crated either, and we had to literally chain him to a metal post in the garage if we left him alone, until the house training was good.
It can be possible to crate train through this, and deal with the separation anxiety so many rescue dogs experience, and it often takes meds with the retraining to work. Your vet is a resource here, and if there's a veterinary behaviorist available, find out!
Mary

 

[Heatherella]

Hi, thank you for your reply and kind words. I am being as proactive as I can (I think?!). I've called 5 vets and the earliest I could get in was July 15, all the other offices were full until August. I asked for phone/Zoom consultations with no luck either. I'm calling around to a few trainers today to see if they can do an emergency home consultation, since I can't take him to any of their facilities without vaccinations/neutering. My brother and sister-in-law have a rescued Golden Retriever that is a nice dog, but has absolutely DESTROYED their house because of separation anxiety (despite trying 3 trainers, medication, therapies, doggie day care, consistent/daily exercise, etc.) and I don't want that to happen to our house. If we did all the training/behavior/etc. with the dog, and nothing improves and I have to keep them separated at all times, I think I can live with that, but it seems so far off and impossible to achieve at this point.

It’s totally okay! July 15th is only a few weeks away. That’s not so bad! I know it’s so stressful right now, but you can make it work, on the contrary, you are not a terrible person if you can’t! Not all dogs fit with every household. If it is so upsetting to you that your chickens will have to live a different lifestyle, you can find your dog another loving home. It doesn’t make you a bad person. Your own personal well being matters as well.

I wish behavioral training happened quickly and was predictable but it’s a long (sometimes arduous) process that really never ends. My dog is 6 years old and he still needs reminders and upkeep in his training.

I am not sure where you live, but Google Judy Moore (www.caninebehaviorcounseling.com). She is a trainer here in Maine, where I live. I know she does phone consultations. That could be a place to start. Take care!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

How are you teaching Sit?