Feeling Very Guilty...Need Advice

[lbgreenfield]

Have you had a dog before?
They take a lot of time and energy to train...especially an adult shelter dog who may have problems. Border collies are very high strung and strong willed, takes a tenacious keeper to keep them under control and happy. It can take months of constant and consistent work to get things settled.
Professional dog training is more about training the people than the dog.
I learned a lot from taking a class with a shelter dog, it taught me how my behaviors and emotions had a huge impact on the dogs demeanor.

I have not owned a dog by myself. I grew up helping to taking care of my dad’s hunting dogs (feeding, letting them out) but it’s been 12+ years since I’ve moved out, gotten married, etc. I did not assist my dad with training, unless he needed help with something (I was usually the go-to pigeon catcher haha).

I thought I knew how much time/effort to expect (I’ve no joke read 3 dog books and watched about 80 hours of training videos in the past 6 months) and thought I was mentally prepared to side-bar the chickens, but seeing how terrified the girls were of the dog with me, then having the chickens run away from me (when they’d always come up for lap cuddles) was so heartbreaking and upsetting for me.

I also VASTLY underestimated the amount of time and effort needed to train the dog, even with all the reading/prepping/etc. I’m feeling a lot of self-doubt/regret right now and am realizing that most of my/our summer plans will have to be cancelled because of the dog. Plus, with COVID restrictions still lingering, we can’t get him to a vet for his wellness exam, shots, neutering, grooming until late July/early August.

He is a good dog inside the house, a complete Velcro dog, who is very loving and friendly. When he’s outside the house, it’s like a switch is flipped.

The dog pound has a “return” policy so I have until June 22 to take him back, but he’d be going back to a concrete kennel, with no human interaction for 20+Hours of the day, so I’m feeling really, really guilty about the entire situation. I have no support from my family, friends, or husband (he wants to keep him, but works away from home for 10+ hours a day and is frequently gone during the weekends for his hobby).

Sorry to be long-winded, I don’t have anyone to talk to about this.

 

[janiedoe]

Hello all. This is slightly embarrassing for me and a long read. We have a current flock of 11 chickens (Five 2.5-year old hens and six 12-week old chicks). I am the primary caretaker of all of them, and I am very, very attached to my chickens and they are attached to me. My husband jokes that he thinks I love the chickens more than I love him sometimes.

We’ve been debating rescuing a shelter dog for almost 5 years now and we finally adopted a 3-year old border collie/pit bull mix who comes from an abusive home. We have had him for about 5 days now. The dog pound didn’t know much about his background. He’s a surprisingly good dog despite his upbringing (friendly towards people, is semi-house trained) but as we’ve come to find out over the past few days, he has a very strong prey drive when it comes to any animal (rabbits especially). We’ve done a very controlled (fully leashed) distanced introduction with the dog/chickens and the dog has lunged and pulled to get closer.

We are keeping the chickens in their run/coop for the time being and I am feeling INCREDIBLY guilty about it. The chickens are used to free ranging during the evenings and have been vocally complaining, making crying sounds, moping around the pen/coop. I feel so horrible and have been trying to spend as much time in the pen as possible but it has been difficult with the new dog (husband works a lot and I’m the primary care taker of the dog while working from home FT). It is making me so emotional and sad and almost resentful towards the dog. Am I being crazy? Over analyzing every move the dog makes? I couldn’t live with myself if something happened to my chickens because of the dog. Just looking for some advice from others on this...

I almost didn't read this because I thought there was going to be a massacre! I applaud you for keeping your chicks safe.
I will say though that the dog will probably never get over his prey instincts. My boxers haven't. We keep a seperate area fenced for our chickens outside the run. I wish you luck!

 

[Heatherella]

Don’t feel guilty! You are doing the very best you can and the fact that you feel so guilty just shows what a caring and kind person you are!

I am a veterinary technician with almost 20 years experience, and I implore you to be proactive with your new dog. I would schedule a vet visit to discuss the separation anxiety/ behavior issues. If handled early, this can be manageable, but if left without intervention, dogs can become increasingly destructive and problematic. It can be a very difficult disorder to treat. Be proactive! This behavior is very common in dogs who are high energy and have a difficult start in life. You have not done anything wrong at all! Your veterinarian will have recommendations and advice, even medications if necessary. I am not sure where you live but all veterinarians were essential in my state, and we stayed open with certain precautions in place. Call around and find someone who can see you ASAP or ask for a phone consultation. I would I would also ask your vet for referral to an animal behaviorist. Be sure to ask a lot of questions and trust your instincts. You want a trainer that does positive reinforcement training. There are a lot of bad animal behaviorists out there, so be careful!

With patience and time, you can teach your dog balanced behavior around the chickens and when alone in the house. That said, he may always be a dog with a prey drive too high to quietly sleep while the chickens roam about, but you can manage it! I have a Standard Poodle, and he loves nothing more than chasing my chickens. Oh, it’s such a fun game for him! I’ve not had any luck working with him on it. So, he stays inside while the ladies free range some of the day, then they all go into their run and are perfectly happy.

Best of luck to you!

 

[lbgreenfield]

Don’t give up just yet. It’s a new dog and lots of adjustments to be made. The dog will learn a lot within time. Border collies are herding dogs so the instincts to chase is normal. In time the dog may be condition to not go after the chickens or it may not. It will take time and lots of proper socialization. If the dog is high energy it will help to take him out several times and play ball with him, try and show his focus else where and not to the chickens. The chickens can stay in the coop for now, while the dog is in training. The crying at night will stop, just don’t give in, I know that’s very hard! You are such a good person to adopt and there are ways to coexist.

Thank you. He looks more pit bull than border collie, but his border collie tendencies are coming out now that he's able to run around outside of his concrete dog pound kennel.
I've tried playing with many different types of toys (tennis balls, ropes, squeaky toys, kongs, puzzle toys, tried to get him to chase me instead) and he doesn't play with any of them. I honestly do not think he knows how to play. We go on 3 long walks during the day (as much time as I can take away from work). I've also tried to start training him two basic commands (Look at me, Sit) when inside the house and he's not responding to it. I'm getting teary eyed just typing this all out!

My chickens were my first "on my own" pets and my friends/family can't understand how I'm more attached to my chickens than the dog, so I don't have many people to talk to. It helps having people here to bounce ideas, discuss things with.

 

[lbgreenfield]

Hi there. I'm feeling terrible for you and the dog!

I suggest some obedience classes for you both. Bully breeds are very good pups but they need patience and lots of love. He has probably never had either of those.

Once you have control of the dog then try again. In the meantime maybe the flock can free range without you and you can use that time to bond with the dog so he loves and respects you. That can take time.

Good luck, I hope he's found his forever home!

Thank you for your kind words and virtual hug! I'm planning on keeping the dog inside if the chickens are out free ranging for the time being, but it's just heartbreaking for me to see my "girls" in the pen waaaay longer than they ever have been (even though I know they will survive just fine, it doesn't seem that way for me!)

I will enroll him in obedience classes once he has had his vet exam/vaccinations and once he's been neutered. I'm hoping to start classes in mid- to late-August at the earliest (since there are still COVID restrictions and the vet office is backlogged, I can't get him to the vet until late July, and can't start classes until he's had all his vaccinations and has been neutered).

 

[Kdlevesque]

We have 2 lab mixes that have a VERY high prey drive. Because of this, we have added a fenced in run expansion that is a 20 x 40 ft area. They still get to “free range” but our dogs can’t get to them. With that being said, Our younger 2 year old dog has become infatuated with sitting at the fence since we hatched out our chicks 6 weeks ago. He is constantly looking for a way into the fence but I am using a remote sound collar that is teaching him to leave them alone, slowly but surely. It is a work in progress and inconvenient at times but he is doing better each day. The older dog doesn’t really pay them any attention but would have a “chicken snack” if given the chance. Our chickens are strictly pets so whatever I have to do to protect them is worth it for me but it might not be that way for everyone.

 

[DoeAndGander]

Great suggestions here! One thing I’m working on with my own dogs is counter conditioning. You basically expose them closer and closer each time (dog in house-chickens out furthest point across the acreage, dog on porch- chickens out furthest point across the acreage, etc.) that being said, some breeds have a prey drive and breaking them from that is darn near impossible. It’s what they were bred to do. But please don’t give up on the dog. it sounds like you’re the best thing that has ever happened to him/her. Having a dog in the house or a secure run while chickens are out is not ideal in my book either but it’s not the end of the world.

 

[igorsMistress]

Thank you for your kind words and virtual hug! I'm planning on keeping the dog inside if the chickens are out free ranging for the time being, but it's just heartbreaking for me to see my "girls" in the pen waaaay longer than they ever have been (even though I know they will survive just fine, it doesn't seem that way for me!)

I will enroll him in obedience classes once he has had his vet exam/vaccinations and once he's been neutered. I'm hoping to start classes in mid- to late-August at the earliest (since there are still COVID restrictions and the vet office is backlogged, I can't get him to the vet until late July, and can't start classes until he's had all his vaccinations and has been neutered).

This Covid junk screws up everything doesn't it? What's his name? Got a pic?

Hang in there! There is an adjustment period for all of you but it'll get easier. I keep my dogs limited to a small yard when my flock is out. There's a doggy door so they can go outside whenever they want but can't get to the flock. Is that a possible option? This allows them to see me and be outside with me in a way but not interact with the flock directly.

 

[igorsMistress]

We have 2 lab mixes that have a VERY high prey drive. Because of this, we have added a fenced in run expansion that is a 20 x 40 ft area. They still get to “free range” but our dogs can’t get to them. With that being said, Our younger 2 year old dog has become infatuated with sitting at the fence since we hatched out our chicks 6 weeks ago. He is constantly looking for a way into the fence but I am using a remote sound collar that is teaching him to leave them alone, slowly but surely. It is a work in progress and inconvenient at times but he is doing better each day. The older dog doesn’t really pay them any attention but would have a “chicken snack” if given the chance. Our chickens are strictly pets so whatever I have to do to protect them is worth it for me but it might not be that way for everyone.

labs are bird dogs so I'm not surprised. The E collars have been a great option while working with our dogs as well.

 

[lbgreenfield]

Don’t feel guilty! You are doing the very best you can and the fact that you feel so guilty just shows what a caring and kind person you are!

I am a veterinary technician with almost 20 years experience, and I implore you to be proactive with your new dog. I would schedule a vet visit to discuss the separation anxiety/ behavior issues. If handled early, this can be manageable, but if left without intervention, dogs can become increasingly destructive and problematic. It can be a very difficult disorder to treat. Be proactive! This behavior is very common in dogs who are high energy and have a difficult start in life. You have not done anything wrong at all! Your veterinarian will have recommendations and advice, even medications if necessary. I am not sure where you live but all veterinarians were essential in my state, and we stayed open with certain precautions in place. Call around and find someone who can see you ASAP or ask for a phone consultation. I would I would also ask your vet for referral to an animal behaviorist. Be sure to ask a lot of questions and trust your instincts. You want a trainer that does positive reinforcement training. There are a lot of bad animal behaviorists out there, so be careful!

With patience and time, you can teach your dog balanced behavior around the chickens and when alone in the house. That said, he may always be a dog with a prey drive too high to quietly sleep while the chickens roam about, but you can manage it! I have a Standard Poodle, and he loves nothing more than chasing my chickens. Oh, it’s such a fun game for him! I’ve not had any luck working with him on it. So, he stays inside while the ladies free range some of the day, then they all go into their run and are perfectly happy.

Best of luck to you!

Hi, thank you for your reply and kind words. I am being as proactive as I can (I think?!). I've called 5 vets and the earliest I could get in was July 15, all the other offices were full until August. I asked for phone/Zoom consultations with no luck either. I'm calling around to a few trainers today to see if they can do an emergency home consultation, since I can't take him to any of their facilities without vaccinations/neutering. My brother and sister-in-law have a rescued Golden Retriever that is a nice dog, but has absolutely DESTROYED their house because of separation anxiety (despite trying 3 trainers, medication, therapies, doggie day care, consistent/daily exercise, etc.) and I don't want that to happen to our house. If we did all the training/behavior/etc. with the dog, and nothing improves and I have to keep them separated at all times, I think I can live with that, but it seems so far off and impossible to achieve at this point.