Female duck not eating well - tube feeding questions

[casportpony]

I was reading through the tube feeding instructions threads again today and got myself more confused about how much to feed. I saw no more than 23 ml per pound of body weight 2-4x daily. But I think Majestic Waterfowl said no more than 90 ml daily for a duck weighing 6-9 lbs. I'm guessing the "no more than" is because the formula is very nutrient rich and their body can only process however much at a time? Obviously not wanting to overstuff their crop too. I don't want to underfeed her but don't want to make her sick from feeding too much too often either. At least she's still drinking well on her own.

The amount one gives is based on crop volume.

Most crops can hold 5% of their body weight, but you want to start off with 2-3% depending on how sick they are, and build up to 5%.

A one pound is 454 grams
2% of 454 grams = 9.08 ml (round up to 10)
3% of 454 grams = 13.62 ml (round up to 14)
5% of 454 grams = 22.7 ml (round up to 23)


A five-pound duck weighs 2272 grams.
2% of 2272 grams = 45.44 ml (round up to 46)
3% of 2272 grams = 68.16 ml (round up to 69)
5% of 2272 grams = 113.6 ml (round up to 114)

I just looked at the Majestic Waterfowl site, and it is wrong! If you follow their suggestion, your bird will lose weight.

Tube/Syringe Feeding Dosages

After taking a sick or injured duck or goose without an appetite to your vet for an exam, they may decide some assisted-feeding is in order. Vets will commonly handle tube feedings themselves (especially in the short term) and advise you to administer syringe feedings to your pet.

Duck (average weight 6-7 lbs):

Tube Feeding: 30 mls per each meal, 2-3 times a day.

Syringe Feeding: You can administer less than 30 mls per feeding and offer more meals throughout the day as long as you top out between 60-90 mls in a 24 hour period. Do NOT go over 90 mls in 24 hours.

Goose (average weight 12 lbs):

Tube Feeding: 60 mls per each meal, 2-3 times a day.

Syringe Feeding: You can administer less than 60 mls per feeding and offer more meals throughout the day as long as you top out between 120-180 mls in a 24 hour period. Do NOT go over 180 mls in 24 hours.
http://www.majesticwaterfowl.org/mmissue76.htm

 

[KCNC06]

The amount one gives is based on crop volume.

Most crops can hold 5% of their body weight, but you want to start off with 2-3% depending on how sick they are, and build up to 5%.

A one pound is 454 grams
2% of 454 grams = 9.08 ml (round up to 10)
3% of 454 grams = 13.62 ml (round up to 14)
5% of 454 grams = 22.7 ml (round up to 23)


A five-pound duck weighs 2272 grams.
2% of 2272 grams = 45.44 ml (round up to 46)
3% of 2272 grams = 68.16 ml (round up to 69)
5% of 2272 grams = 113.6 ml (round up to 114)

I just looked at the Majestic Waterfowl site, and it is wrong! If you follow their suggestion, your bird will lose weight.

Thank you so much for the clarification! I guess the questions I have currently after reading through this, is so you use their current weight or their normal weight? Like, does their crop size/volume shrink when they've lost weight? Also, those numbers are per feeding correct? I'm guessing they must be if the Majestic recommendation of no more than 90 ml/day is wrong.

Bill has always been petite. Her normal weight is around 3.5 - 4 lbs, usually closer to 3.5 though. Even when she has the opportunity to oink on treats she rarely gets a good boob like a lot of other ducks seem to.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Thank you so much for the clarification! I guess the questions I have currently after reading through this, is so you use their current weight or their normal weight? Like, does their crop size/volume shrink when they've lost weight? Also, those numbers are per feeding correct? I'm guessing they must be if the Majestic recommendation of no more than 90 ml/day is wrong.

Bill has always been petite. Her normal weight is around 3.5 - 4 lbs, usually closer to 3.5 though. Even when she has the opportunity to oink on treats she rarely gets a good boob like a lot of other ducks seem to.

@casportpony

 

[casportpony]

I have found that the crop size doesn't shrink significantly if they've lost weight. For example, right not I have a sick peacock that has lost about half of his weight. Normal weight for him is about 4kg (8.8 pounds). At his normal weight, his 5% crop volume is 200 ml. I started with 60 ml, and I could barely feel it in his crop, so I gave another 60 and it felt bigger. One more 60 and it felt full.

Tubing is part art, part science. The science is easy, the art is hard. By art I mean being able to evaluate their status and knowing when it's okay to give more.

Correcting temperature & hydration are critical. Make sure you do that.
Note that to maintain normal hydration, they need to have no less than 5% of their body weight in fluids each day.



https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/tube-feeding-ducks-updated-5-7-2020.1211994/

Step 1:
Bring duck inside and place in a warm room, 80-85 degrees is ideal (watch for signs of over-heating).

Step 2:
Weigh the duck

Step 3:
Once warmed, correct hydration and this should not be done until the duck is warmed up. Tube warmed (102 degrees) Pedialyte or Gatorade at 14 ml per pound of body weight, wait 60-90 minutes and repeat. If no poop is produced by 3 hours after first tubing, repeat once more.

Step 4:
Once the duck is pooping you can start tubing warmed Kaytee Exact baby bird food or a non-lay crumble (lay crumble has too much calcium). Start by tubing 14 ml per pound of body weight and increase a little at each feeding. Do not exceed 23 ml per pound of body weight. Sick birds are tube fed 2-4 times a day.

 

[KCNC06]

I have found that the crop size doesn't shrink significantly if they've lost weight. For example, right not I have a sick peacock that has lost about half of his weight. Normal weight for him is about 4kg (8.8 pounds). At his normal weight, his 5% crop volume is 200 ml. I started with 60 ml, and I could barely feel it in his crop, so I gave another 60 and it felt bigger. One more 60 and it felt full.

Tubing is part art, part science. The science is easy, the art is hard. By art I mean being able to evaluate their status and knowing when it's okay to give more.

Correcting temperature & hydration are critical. Make sure you do that.
Note that to maintain normal hydration, they need to have no less than 5% of their body weight in fluids each day.



https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/tube-feeding-ducks-updated-5-7-2020.1211994/

@casportpony

Thank you! After reading your reply earlier I was guessing you meant normal body weight but wanted to be sure. I realized using their reduced weight would probably just help them maintain that weight rather than gain anything. At least that's how it worked for me when I had some major unexplained weight loss a few years ago. Had to pack in the calories to gain weight back (apparently you get to a certain age and losing weight makes you look old ). I haven't been using her normal weight to calculate the 5% but will definitely increase it tomorrow. That would probably explain why I've been so confused when I'm trying to feel her crop after a feeding. I've been on the low end of the amount she can get so her crop isn't getting full enough to notice much difference. She did eat some of her salmon with the Kaytee formula poured over it tonight. I was very impressed because she hasn't been willing to eat anything with "trick food" lately (any sort of pellets or anything even in powder or mush form).

Anyway. She's inside with me and I'm using a space heater to make sure our room stays warmer than the rest of the house. She seems warm enough, hopefully she is. It's currently 78 but was closer to 80 earlier today. From what I've seen, it looks like she's drinking normally. I haven't measured the exact amount though. It's hard to measure how much a duck is drinking based on their water container though, at least with my girls and the way they fling it around. I did get a couple bottles of unflavored Pedialyte just in case we need it.

 

[KCNC06]

@casportpony

I could have sworn I saw links for feeding tubes somewhere but can't find them now. Do you know of an online source for the Fr 18 or 20 tubes? The links I think I remembered seeing somewhere, that site didn't have them anymore. Or the links weren't good. I'm having the darndest time finding anything bigger than a 14 or 16, which I thought worked well enough at first but am now realizing it's too skinny. Makes the feeding take too long and it's killing my bad shoulder. Crazy rotator cuff trouble that causes nerve pain. I saw that aquarium tube can be used in a pinch but I'd rather get the real thing to have in case I need them.
Thank you!!

 

[casportpony]

@casportpony

I could have sworn I saw links for feeding tubes somewhere but can't find them now. Do you know of an online source for the Fr 18 or 20 tubes? The links I think I remembered seeing somewhere, that site didn't have them anymore. Or the links weren't good. I'm having the darndest time finding anything bigger than a 14 or 16, which I thought worked well enough at first but am now realizing it's too skinny. Makes the feeding take too long and it's killing my bad shoulder. Crazy rotator cuff trouble that causes nerve pain. I saw that aquarium tube can be used in a pinch but I'd rather get the real thing to have in case I need them.
Thank you!!

Search for Rusch 351018 (18 french) or Rusch 351020 (20 french)
or
Dover 8888492066 (18 french) or Dover 8888492120 (20 french)

Or this:
https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Rubbe...a0-9517-94aa735ff204&pd_rd_i=B09R7K5C9N&psc=1

 

[KCNC06]

Search for Rusch 351018 (18 french) or Rusch 351020 (20 french)
or
Dover 8888492066 (18 french) or Dover 8888492120 (20 french)

Or this:
https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Rubbe...a0-9517-94aa735ff204&pd_rd_i=B09R7K5C9N&psc=1
View attachment 3747485

Wonderful! Thank you! I found a few med supply websites that sell them but unfortunately not without a prescription.

 

[Miss Lydia]

@KCNC06 How is she doing?

 

[KCNC06]

@KCNC06 How is she doing?

She seems to have more energy and is slowly gaining weight. It's taken me a bit of trial and error to feel like the feedings are successful. (Unsuccessful feedings included fun things like the syringe detaching from the tube and spraying formula all over my helper.) After having my sweet little cuddle duck die unexpectedly, I'm hesitant to get too confident in our successes though. I'm hopeful but not ready to celebrate anything yet.