Female Geese Trying to Mate with Each Other

[RHRanch]

This has nothing to do with avoiding "same-sex" issues, since in different-sex animal sexuality the dominace instinct is also operational. That's why its called an instinct...it is always at play.
You want to reduce this to merely physical pleasure. Sure, that's part of it, but its hardly the entire story. Listen, I am not interested in defending or attacking the "gay goose" theory that appears to be the sub-text of the conversation, and perhaps the reason for not wanting to see that other instincts other than sexual attraction are ALSO at play. If that is the ultimate point of the conversation than I will bow out and say no more, as I find the discussion too politically charged and unfruitful. Suffice to say, there are several instinctual responses at play among these two geese in confinement....including dominance, but also automated sexual response to eternal stimuli. Not sure why this is even debated. To remove dominance (or any other instinctual response) from the equation is to turn 200 years of scientific research on its head. This is the basis of all naturalistic and behavioral studies.
As to the dog, YES. The dog is showing dominance over its environment (as well as acting on a clear sexual instinct). There have been many studies on the interplay between dominance and sexuality for canines (especially among wolves). Its not an either/or. Its a both/and. Sexuality among animals is a dominant act. I'm not sure why this is such a controversy. The presence of the dominance instinct does not reduce or negate the reality of the sex instinct.
To the OP, good luck with your geese. Their behavior is very normal and should cause no concern. It does make it difficult to correctly differentiate the goose from the gander at times, which is part of the reason I went with Pilgrims (they are auto-sexing: white = gander, grey = goose).

Sorry, its my dog and I know whats she's doing - I know dominant behavior when I see it, and I know when someone is just set on getting "happy", and thats all she is doing. I know it makes people uncomfortable to think that animals might just be seeking pleasure, but thats been well documented also.

 

[cmcm]

Wow! I had no idea this thread of mine had gone on so long and had gotten so interesting! I used to get emails that told me when someone replied to a thread and I just realized that I need to subscribe to this thread.

Ok - so, just a little more 411 for you all.

The white chinese does, in fact, seem to be the "dominant" goose. She, MacGregor, chases the african, Padraig (pronounced Porrig), out of the pool whenever she feels like it and is usually the one on top during the mating act. And even before she gets on top of Padraig, Padraig will get into a submissive position, and the submission is even directed at me - she will let me pet her and won't move a muscle. But Padraig does on occasion get on top of MacGregor - but so far very rarely. And when MacGregor is on top she is facing in all sorts of directions - but her favorite seems to be sideways - and she grabs onto Padraig's wing and her rear end sort of convulses (like I'm assuming a gander's would during mating, but I've only seen our roosters make that movement).

It's very interesting to watch and this conversation is very interesting. The chickens we have have never behaved like this and they seem to have way less of what you might call a higher brain function or cognitive function than the geese. For example if I am outside doing something the chickens couldn't care less. They never pay attention to me unless they think I have food. But the gees will usually go to all the places I've been after I left and sort of look around - like they are trying to see what I was doing. I don't mean to anthropomorphize their behavior - I just mean to say they seem to actually be exhibiting a little more awareness of what is going on around them. How that relates to the mating thing and the dominance vs good times argument I don't know.

But whatever it is is they sure are compelled to do it. On a very regular basis.

Oh! And someone mentioned confinement - they are only confined at night. During the day they have a huge yard to wander around in and sometimes they are away from each other, but for the most part they tend to stick together. They do seem to want to be apart a little more though, ever since they both started laying.

Thanks so much for all the great replies!

Carol

 

[Sasa]

After reading all of the comments, my question is, are geese happier when they have a gander? That's how nature intended it but I had to re-home my Buff gander because he rejected two of my 4 hens and was actually attacking one of them. My girls mock mate with each other and without the gander 2 of my Runner drakes (snotty little boys) chase them out of the stock tank, so I will have to buy a second tank so the geese can swim in more than just a playpool. I am wondering if a different gander might accept all 4 girls and if the girls would be happier to have a guy around. I really appreciate help with this dilemma.

 

[Sasa]

I had that, with a gander they mated with the gander, without him they mate with each other. The largest hen is the one on top. With the gander the flock was divided because he only wanted the 2 young girls and rejected the two older girls. Without the gander the flock is united.

Do you think that a different gander might be better for them or do they not actually need a gander despite what nature intends? I hear they mate for life, am I denying them that by denying them a gander?

 

[ElizabethAz]

I wanted to add my 2 cents...

I have three female geese..I had four, but number four as it turns out is a true Gander.. I have also observed my female geese mounting. My chinese goose was very active in this behavior, and even plucked my sebastapol down to--well her down.. And she even mounted my other goose and the Gander. At first I thought that she was a he--and was really convinced.. BUT I also noticed that after these encounters my goose would go into her house and prep a place to lay an egg.

While this is not conclusive evidence to support or shut down ALL the arguments that have been made..and certainly doesn't explain every individual goose's motivation behind their behaiviors... From what I have observed in my own geese I have been able to draw one conclusion to explain their behavior: The egg or formation of an egg in the oviduct stimulated a breeding response from the goose.

I support this claim in light of the evidence that my ducks have also shown similar behavior.. I have a trio of mallards. One hen lays more eggs than the other, and this "egg laying machine" of a hen does excersise her dominance over the other hen when she is near to egg laying. She chases the younger more submisssive hen away from the drake, biting, pulling feathers, mounting, what ever it takes. Then she returns to the drake as the happy victor, and bobs her head up and down while making little quack noises and lowering herself to the ground--enticing him to mate. This hen will repeat this process until after she has lain an egg-- once that is done she and the other hen are best friends... the other hen will also bob and 'seduce' the drake, but she doesn't dare try to chase off the other hen...after seduction is complete..the hens like to go pick out a spot next to their house to lay an egg.. When the hens are not laying eggs, their battle for the drake is over, and peace is restored.

I also had three bachelor drakes for a while.. their behavior showed the differnt aspects of dominance....while they were together there was a strict pecking order. The pekin drake was at the top, the sweedish blue was second in command and accepted the pekin as number one from the start. My runner duck drake was at first aggressive, trying to bite the other ducks and chase them, then the pekin and the blue made him realize he was lower than the dirt he walked on. They would regularly mount him, chase him, and keep him confined to the interior of the coop. As a result of this jail house justice, the Runner (even though he is now seperate from the other drakes) has developed a submissive complex, and even submits to the hens--who are very confused by him, and I have one hen who takes advantage of his apparent "demoralization" by mounting him..

Like in humans 'Rape' (or sex from a scientific stand point), is a tool for Domination amongst waterfowl such as ducks. Dogs display mounting behavior too, but dominance mounting amongst dogs does not include penitration when males are involved--ducks don't seem to hold reservations about getting their 'jollies on' with another male--if it has feathers anything goes..

Domination doesn't need to be 'aggressive' or violent to establish dominance... humans establish dominance all the time without bashing someones head in, or raping them into submission.. Dominance can be earned through respect, or mutual understanding. you accept your Boss at work as being your boss, and you have to respect his/her decision--you are submitting to the Dominance of your Boss.
You are taking your dog for a walk, and he sees a squirl he wants to chase and pulls hard on the leash, you tell him NO, he looks at you, aknowledging that he respects your wise decision, submits to your Dominance and stops pulling on the leash..

I think the observation, or assumption that Dominance is mostly violent/aggressive is false, and unfounded. There are violent and aggresssive forms/ways to achieve dominance, but to define it as "violent" and using that to defend a point is ignorant.

Back to the dog.. there are many documented cases where dogs have expressed an over exagerated need to mount objects/people in their effort to gain control over situations in their lives which is often refered to as "dominance." Dominance, like "aggression" is a very loose term when speaking in refernce to dogs. Many people do not understand their dogs behavior because they do not know how to read a dog, nor do they know the root of what may be causing the apparent changes in behavior-- so they simply refer to these terms in an effort to describe one of the symptoms that is being presented.

I agree with you that your vet is wrong. Veterinarians are doctors and surgeons, they are NOT behaviorists. They don't study animal behavior, nor do they specifically treat the mental afflictions that dogs develop as a result of their living environment. But I would also caution you on assuming that your dogs motivation is strictly for pleasure--- the "expressions" on a dogs face were bred into them over thousands of years to mimic our own expressions--their ability to do this made them worthy pets. What you see as being "pleasure" is most likely "relief" your dog is relieving itself of some sort stress by acting out in what some people might falsly call a "dominant" behavior.

I have never met your dog, or observed it, and therefor I cannot say for certain what is causing this behavior, BUT it sounds to me more like your dog lacks pack structure--its sounds terrible and judgmental I am sure when you hear that, but the average dog does not recieve the type of structure or understanding that they need.

They are pets and are treated like they are human children, your dog no doubt loves you, but certain things that humans do (or DON'T do enough of CORRECTLY..) for their dogs does actually cause them alot of stress that their humans never realized/thought would ever affect their dog the way it did...this stress is manifested as Anxiety; anxiety in dogs can be expressed in different ways depending on the individual being affected. If you ever interested in understanding the real reason your dog behaves the way it does, and are dedicated to fixing it, I would talk to a licensed behaviorist in your state instead of a vet.

 

[cmcm]

To the OP, good luck with your geese. Their behavior is very normal and should cause no concern.

Thanks CP. They are still up to it every day. And they both still take the dominant position at different times. They also both have different small bodies of water that they each "claim" and won't let the other get into. I just let them do their thing - not much else I can do anyway.

 

[Kobie]

I have 2 Greylags, both under one year old. They started "mating" with the same one always on top. Lily, the assumed female, layed an egg a week ago, and we were anxiously awaiting the next egg. We could clearly see an egg-like bump at the bottom of her tummy. But much to our surprise, we then noticed a small bump at the bottom of Milo as well... We were disappointed, and after I have read this thread, I am convinced that I have 2 females. Bummer!!
Loved the conversation though. Thank you for the information all who contributed.

 

[livininbrazil]

I have 2 Greylags, both under one year old. They started "mating" with the same one always on top. Lily, the assumed female, layed an egg a week ago, and we were anxiously awaiting the next egg. We could clearly see an egg-like bump at the bottom of her tummy. But much to our surprise, we then noticed a small bump at the bottom of Milo as well... We were disappointed, and after I have read this thread, I am convinced that I have 2 females. Bummer!!
Loved the conversation though. Thank you for the information all who contributed.

Hi, Kobie. Unfortunately they´ll 'mate' with each other. But 2 females is better than 2 males, and at least you´ll get some nice eggs from them. Of course, if you really want to breed, it shouldn´t be difficult to find a male.

 

[Kobie]

Hi
I have since found out that I have a male and female. The female sat on 8 eggs for about 25 days, then she left the nest and now only sit on the eggs at night! So no goslings for us this year. Is this because she is only one year old, or is it because we have 3x small dogs who went to the nest numerous times and carried eggs out, which I then placed back into the nest every time.

 

[livininbrazil]

Hi
I have since found out that I have a male and female. The female sat on 8 eggs for about 25 days, then she left the nest and now only sit on the eggs at night! So no goslings for us this year. Is this because she is only one year old, or is it because we have 3x small dogs who went to the nest numerous times and carried eggs out, which I then placed back into the nest every time.

Probably a mix of both, but most times the first year is touch-and-go with geese. Next year should be more settled, but try to keep her in a quiet place away form the dog, just in case this unsettled her. What a shame, so close to possible hatch. Did you check them? How many were fertile?