FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[trinoc]

I feed once a day in the morning for winter months and they forage for the rest of the day. I feed once a day in the evenings for the rest of the year and they forage all day to fill up on healthier foods before getting a dab of feed before bedtime.

I'm currently feeding layer mash and a little whole grains of barley and BOSS and am feeding 9 LF birds 4 cups of feed. And they are waddling on that amount so I'm thinking of cutting that down a bit....

They truly do not need to have food in front of them at all times...one good meal is enough to sustain them until the next day. I've butchered birds that hadn't eaten for 17 hrs that still had good amounts of feed in their crops, so no worries of them being or going hungry.

I hit this post and wanted to ask a question berfore reading further so my apologies if someone asks and it's been answered in the next 4 pages. Why do you change the times of day that you feed them? Is it so they get most of their nutrition from foraging through the warmer months? Thanks!

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks so much. I will try just morning and layoff scraps for a bit. I just wasn't sure about going to bed with nothing in stomach with it bring so cold. I have read on here that food in crop helps keep warm as its consumed. What do you say Bee? I trust your opinion and knowledge.
I looked into those dig bowls so expensive but may bite the bullet.

Here's a post I did on that.....chickens are a lot like us in their temperature regulation, so types of food eaten(i.e. corn) or just food in the belly doesn't really change our ability to stay warm unless it was hot food and that warmth only lasts briefly. For the most part, good nutrition fed daily will provide the body enough energy to maintain adequate body temps.

I've processed birds that still had feed in the crop stage of digestion 17 hrs past their last meal, so I wouldn't worry too much about full bellies at bed time. I always feed in the morning in the winter months and in the evening in the warmer months and I've not seen any indication that going to bed with a full belly~or without one~ changed their ability to conserve or get rid of body heat. They pretty much regulate their body heat with or without a full belly.

If you live in a climate that freezes in the winter. those heated buckets and bowls can sure take a lot of work out of your poultry routine! I call that an investment and it was the smartest one I'd made for the various animals. It conserves water too, so less need to be carrying water on icy pathways because you have to dump out ice and add water. I've used the heated buckets for dogs, cows and sheep and the heated bowl for keeping the chickens in water...I just add a dollop of apple cider vinegar to keep the water from growing things and I don't have to change out to fresh water for 4-5 days, as opposed to daily emptying of frozen water and adding liquid and then worrying about if they are getting enough water before it freezes again.

Quote: Birds allowed free access to their environment also rely on behavioral thermoregulation. This means they will seek out the most energy efficient means of maintaining their body
temperature such as feather ruffling, drinking water, moving into the shade or sun (or heat source), huddling and lying down.

The major advantage of endothermy over ectothermy is decreased vulnerability to fluctuations in external temperature. Regardless of location (and hence external temperature), endothermy maintains a constant core temperature for optimum enzyme activity. Endotherms control body temperature by internal homeostatic mechanisms. In mammals two separate homeostatic mechanisms are involved in thermoregulation - one mechanism increases body temperature, while the other decreases it. The presence of two separate mechanisms provides a very high degree of control. This is important because the core temperature of mammals can be controlled to be as close as possible to the optimum temperature for enzyme activity.

Here's some info on how energy is used from feeds in livestock:

Quote:

 

[Beekissed]

I hit this post and wanted to ask a question berfore reading further so my apologies if someone asks and it's been answered in the next 4 pages. Why do you change the times of day that you feed them? Is it so they get most of their nutrition from foraging through the warmer months? Thanks!

Yep! In the warmer months I can get by on feeding very little grain based feed if I feed them at the end of the day when they have full crops...and if they didn't have successful foraging, they can still get a bellyful before going to bed.

In the winter time, foraging is slim pickin's, so I feed them in the morning to make sure they aren't hungry all day without a chance of finding food. Then, if they find food after that, it's a bonus...they often graze clover in the winter months and they are constantly plowing through the leaves, especially after a rain, so I'm thinking they are finding some foraged foods even in the cold temps. They also hunt through their deep litter in the coop....I saw one of the hens picking up ants the other day in the middle of the coop and it was 20 degrees outside.

 

[trinoc]

Wonderful. Thanks!!

 

[Egghead_Jr]

I've read about 40 pages of this thread and still can't find the answer.

Why would you mix such large quantities of scratch grains with bagged feed when fermenting? I understand that nutrients are more readily absorbed when feed is fermented but to deplete the total protein percentage with 50/50 mixes and the like seems too much. What am I missing here?

 

[Beekissed]

I've read about 40 pages of this thread and still can't find the answer.

Why would you mix such large quantities of scratch grains with bagged feed when fermenting? I understand that nutrients are more readily absorbed when feed is fermented but to deplete the total protein percentage with 50/50 mixes and the like seems too much. What am I missing here?

You are missing that your birds don't need all that protein in the first place to produce an egg...and particularly when they slow down for the winter months and are barely producing at all. You cannot increase rate of lay by merely increasing proteins, though many on this forum seem to believe that you can, so they pour on the proteins in an attempt to get more eggs...or to keep chickens "warm" for the winter. Mixing 16% layer ration with a cheaper grain like barley, at almost 12% protein, you really aren't lowering it all that much but are cutting some cost....all the while not affecting rate of lay or body condition one iota.

Why feed the higher proteins and suffer the cost of it when it does absolutely nothing to improve lay or maintain body condition during slack production times? Folks have been doing this for a long time before BYC ever came on the scene...my granny never fed anything more then field corn and was always in eggs, summer and winter.

I'm not a fan of high levels of protein for animals unless they are performing...hunting dogs, racing horses, working animals...and hens that are in peak laying season, wherein 16% protein is quite adequate. You could go even lower and get by quite well. I'm also not a fan of wasting money...hence the fermented feed experiment.

Right now I'm feeding 100% layer(the cheapest feed at the mill right now, which is certainly not the norm) with a little BOSS thrown in and I'm getting one egg a day from a six year old hen...and the rest of the hens aren't laying a thing, though they are old enough to be putting them out. This same hen will produce that egg whether she is eating just the layer ration or if it is mixed half and half with barley or oats...I know this because she has been doing this for me for many years now on just that cut of feed.

Just take some time over the years to play with your feeds and see what produces results...and what doesn't...and you'll soon find that you really don't need high dollar feeds or high pro mixes to get production or keep birds in good condition.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Oh I don't buy exotic expensive feeds for sure and the highest protein used is 18% as a starter for chicks. I'll definitely play with it some over the next year to see what works best. I do want to start the fermenting feed though. Each time I see another thread on worming chickens and read how folks worm semi yearly and such I wonder why? and if I should just annually worm them as a precaution. But that just seems silly. I've never had to medicate my chickens and think with fermenting via live kraut or unfiltered vinegar is a better preventative than willy nilly giving medication as a prevention. Obviously I'd treat infested or sick chickens but in 4 years I've never had to.

 

[Beekissed]

Oh I don't buy exotic expensive feeds for sure and the highest protein used is 18% as a starter for chicks. I'll definitely play with it some over the next year to see what works best. I do want to start the fermenting feed though. Each time I see another thread on worming chickens and read how folks worm semi yearly and such I wonder why? and if I should just annually worm them as a precaution. But that just seems silly. I've never had to medicate my chickens and think with fermenting via live kraut or unfiltered vinegar is a better preventative than willy nilly giving medication as a prevention. Obviously I'd treat infested or sick chickens but in 4 years I've never had to.

I agree...I've never had to deworm a flock of chickens, nor would I. I'd give preventative type things just for kicks and giggles but I've never raised and kept a chicken~under my care~ that I suspected of having worms. Annual culling of nonlayers and other undesirables seems to eliminate the birds that would be likely to carry heavy parasite loads. I wouldn't treat a sick chicken..culling would be my first plan of action.

If a person has to deworm a flock of chickens, they need to take a serious look at their flock management methods as a whole...stocking rate, soil conditions, breed type, culling criteria, etc.

I think you are on the right track!

The more I learn about fermented grains and the more I hear feedback of what it's done for people's flocks, the more I'm impressed with doing this to feed. And it saves me a bundle!

 

[Sparkway]

Thanks Bee
I think I will invest in a heated bowl for the feed. Coldest it's ever been in NJ. You are in WV? Did you get that horrible snow storm? Two weeks and smelly poop is down that's a big plusssss!!!

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks Bee
I think I will invest in a heated bowl for the feed. Coldest it's ever been in NJ. You are in WV? Did you get that horrible snow storm? Two weeks and smelly poop is down that's a big plusssss!!!

That's great! The lack of poop smell was the first pleasant surprise I had when I first started this with a batch of meaty chicks...it was such a blessing! I hadn't read anything about that in all the studies but they did mention less DM(dry matter) in the poops. Whatever that means. Could mean less undigested grains. But, it was a real bonus! Never dreamed I'd ever walk into a coop in the dead of a humid summer day...a coop that hadn't been cleaned out for almost a year..and not smell a thing but fresh air. It's like a miracle!

We only got 3 in. of snow and some really cold temps...right now it's 11* out. Supposed to get subzero by Mon...so buckle down for more cold temps your way.

If it just gets cold, it won't be so bad...but if the wind blows and it's that cold, that seems to suck the warmth out of coops, houses and creatures much quicker. I've added more wind blocks to my coop and dry bedding on top of the deep litter in preparation for the colder temps.