FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Tikkijane]

Just for clarification jellybean, LDJ's situation is MUCH different than mine. She is feeding over 100 birds which would be enormously daunting to feed 100% ff in my opinion. I only have 4 hens so my 100% ff program suits me and my girls. Whatever works for you and your lifestyle is the right way to go.

Feeding entirely ff does require more attention and we have to get babysitters if we are gone for several days since they do need to be fed., rather than having feed available at all times.

I've got close to 80 and do 100% FF. The only thing I add when it's very cold (which is rare here) is scratch. They free-range 100% of daylight hours and are only cooped at night. Even if I had 200 birds, I'd still do it- I'd just keep adding coolers.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

... That source said to soak the alfalfa over night and feed it in a trough the next day, free choice.

There are lots of benefits to alfalfa. Finishing meat birds on a diet with a high percentage of alfalfa can really improve the fat of the birds ... more omega 3s. Alfalfa can help reduce salmonella in the flock due to the way it ferments in the digestive tract. Alfalfa has a lot of minerals and can improve hatch rates. It can help eggs be more orange. But a diet restricte to alfalfa is one way to induce molt ...

Some rations already contain alfalfa.

No wonder my chickens wouldn't touch it, I didn't soak.

The organic grower I ferment and feed everyone has alfalfa meal as the 4th ingredient listed, ahead of oats.

Even if I had 200 birds, I'd still do it- I'd just keep adding coolers.

I'd do 100% too if I had larger flocks but I mostly have disperse breeding pens with a maximum of 12 adults or 30 young birds each so instead of slopping one big group, I'm dragging it around to up to 10 pens. At least one flock is free ranging all the time.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

No wonder my chickens wouldn't touch it, I didn't soak.

The organic grower I ferment and feed everyone has alfalfa meal as the 4th ingredient listed, ahead of oats.

I'd do 100% too if I had larger flocks but I mostly have disperse breeding pens with a maximum of 12 adults or 30 young birds each so instead of slopping one big group, I'm dragging it around to up to 10 pens. At least one flock is free ranging all the time.

We had a "fail" at offering alfalfa that involved someone just dumping some in one of those black feed bowls and setting it in the coop until it started to swell from the humidity ... then the dog ate it ... then the dog got thirsty ... then the dog produced much, much bright green vomit.

I only laugh because it really didn't phase the dog ... just a result of expansion in a confined space.

I think a pre-soak for alfalfa ... or fermentation ... is a good idea. Gives everyone a chance to understand how much they are actually eating.

Fermentation should also help with the roughage aspect of alfalfa.

 

[subhanalah]

I started my FF yesterday using Primal Defense capsules. After I had already added it, I discovered it has an iron supplement in it! Will this be okay? It has 1.8 mg per capsule, I used three. I filled a gallon pitcher 1/3 full of the chick starter and now with the water, its almost full.

Can I still use this batch, or will this be too much iron?

And BTW, who the heck puts iron Ina probiotic!?!? Maybe it's to "stop you up" a little so you have the impression that the probiotics are working. GAH!

Well, I guess this works. When I disturbed it to take this next picture,and set it back on the counter, it started bubbling like a volcano!
It smells very yeasty, is this bad?
I was hoping for lacto-fermentation instead of the yeast fermentation. Is it normal to get the bubbles after less than 24 hours?

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I think pretty much here we recommend "plain" fermentation using just chicken feed and water ... sometimes other chicken-approved things are added in (BOSS, grains, alfalfa). Once you get too creative you're kinda on your own ... I wouldn't want to endorse what you're describing as "okay."

Edited to add: I wouldn't want to say that particular supplement in FF is okay without researching it first ...

My FF smells like pickles, not like yeast. The food swells while fermenting ... it gets puffy ... it has slow-ish air bubbles or burps if there is extra water in it ... but it has never volcanoed. That much volitility could distress a birds digestive system, IMO.

You should research the iron limits for the birds you're feeding. Fermentation already boosts iron ...

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I've got close to 80 and do 100% FF. The only thing I add when it's very cold (which is rare here) is scratch. They free-range 100% of daylight hours and are only cooped at night. Even if I had 200 birds, I'd still do it- I'd just keep adding coolers.

Awesome! It sounds like you're doing great.

 

[subhanalah]

I couldn't find that specific information online. But I did find a chicken supplement (rooster booster poultry cell) and it contains 400 mgs of iron per cc,and the directions are for 1-3 cc of the rooster booster per day. My chicken feed doesn't have iron listed in the guaranteed analysis, which is disappointing. I wonder why it isn't on the package? It should have at least some iron in it, right?

All of the ingredients in the probiotic are either the cultures of live bacteria or plants (barley and oayt grass). I also added about 2cc of ACV with mother to it as well.

Many people use probiotic to start their fermented feed. As with making sourdough bread, it can get the wrong stuff from the air, and go "off."

I'm going to leave it in hopes that the bacteria will consume the yeast. I imagine the little iron that's in it is from the oat and barley grass included. (It does say plant derived)

Thank you for your input and opinion
I wonder if the "niacin supplement" on the label of my chicken feed is indeed just brewers yeast, and that's why it smells so yeasty? I did not add anything with yeast to it (unless ACV and yeast have some sort of relation.)

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I've read that opinion about "the wrong stuff" before as a reason to use specific starters for fermentation. My research indicates that even in a laboratory setting the starter will be overwhelmed by local inputs very quickly, so it isn't actually effective ...

A good local ferment, backslopped into new batches, has been tested and shown effective in controlling undesirables in cultures when fermenting for livestock.

I'm pretty sure this thread was started in the spirit of "less is more" with regards to fermenting for poultry procedures. The research I've done supports this approach.

But of course there are lots of variations in how to go about fermenting for poultry. It's just that getting informed opinions might be harder if the variation you're asking about is particularly different ...

The thing is to find an approach that "works for you." Keep your eye on your birds, respond to their needs.

There are lots of kinds of niacin supplements ... but I believe most yeast supplements are inactive forms of yeast ... it isn't fun to eat active yeast.

Nutritional yeast is a better source of niacin than is brewer's yeast.

Chicken feeds don't usually break down the nutritional info much ...

 

[perchie.girl]

I couldn't find that specific information online. But I did find a chicken supplement (rooster booster poultry cell) and it contains 400 mgs of iron per cc,and the directions are for 1-3 cc of the rooster booster per day. My chicken feed doesn't have iron listed in the guaranteed analysis, which is disappointing. I wonder why it isn't on the package? It should have at least some iron in it, right?

All of the ingredients in the probiotic are either the cultures of live bacteria or plants (barley and oayt grass). I also added about 2cc of ACV with mother to it as well.

Many people use probiotic to start their fermented feed. As with making sourdough bread, it can get the wrong stuff from the air, and go "off."

I'm going to leave it in hopes that the bacteria will consume the yeast. I imagine the little iron that's in it is from the oat and barley grass included. (It does say plant derived)

Thank you for your input and opinion

I wonder if the "niacin supplement" on the label of my chicken feed is indeed just brewers yeast, and that's why it smells so yeasty? I did not add anything with yeast to it (unless ACV and yeast have some sort of relation.)

yeasts are in the air Every where.... you cannot exclude them unless you are in a laboratory environment with super cleaned air and you change into paper clothing going through an air lock. Same goes for bacteria and viruses. The feed will come in with many different kinds than what you have in your area.

Less is more.... Rooster booster or vitamine supplements like it are designed for show birds and marketed to People....

For instance I have had horses 47 years. People have asked me why my horse is so shiny and black.... what kind of feed or vitimines or diet program do I use. UM... Hay.... (good quality hay) Water.... (good quality water) Exercise .... not too much not too little..... And elbow grease. I get a blank stare on the last one.... "You know.... Brushing and currying and keeping the skin free of dander and sweat"

deb

 

[birdlady79]

Hi I have a ? I made up my batch of ff Sunday. This morning is smelled good. Tonight it smells alcholish... It was seperated tonight so I stirred it back up.... Is that normal? I used a small pickle jar.. How much ACV should I add? Or should I throw it out and start over?