FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

Hmmm, I always add feed to my close to empty bucket first then add water to the right proportion. Next time I will try to remember to slop water in first and see if it makes a difference. I already feel that my new refreshed bucket ferments really quickly since I live where it is always warm. In fact I have been dealing with a little bit of a fruit fly problem with my ff lately. I have to keep my lid on all the way, not cocked. It still gets air, just doesn't let the little buggers in.

I love it when they come to the feed, though I rarely seem to have this problem much.....but I wouldn't try to avoid it. Any eggs they lay there will only add protein and they are not a vector of disease as far as I know. How lucky are we? We don't have to develop elaborate systems to feed fly larvae!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-16/orange-chickens/4823626

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[ChickenCanoe]

Well said. What I am talking about is NOT adding something extra. Most any commercially produced feed will have supplements mixed in, like Leslie said. What I am thinking of doing is to mix my own feed for reasons of superior nutrition and reduced feed costs. If I want it to be similar to commercial feed, I would need to add a vitamin/mineral supplement. Since I could control when the supplement is mixed in, I'd prefer to put it in at the time of feeding, not before the feed is fermented. A small extra step. I suppose there are folks who a fermenting simply bulk whole grains and legumes, not a premixed commercial feed. Perhaps with the right mix of fermented grains/legumes and the right kind of forage, they would thrive and get all the nutrition they need. But I don't know enough about chicken nutrition to know that yet.

To be a complete feed, a lot of additives have to be supplemented because some of the nutrients for essential poultry nutrition just aren't present in the main ingredients of grains and legumes - or at least not in high enough levels.
Things like selenium, salt, iron, vitamin D, vitamin K that - if they weren't supplemented - would cause deficiencies.
It's true that good pristine forage will supplement some of those things but for housed or penned birds or even free range birds in winter, that isn't happening.
IMHO, unless one has a large enough foraging area with an excellent mix of succulent greens and bugs, year round, they're probably not going to be able to provide a ration of both superior nutrition AND reduce cost. If one has thousands of birds it can be possible but the economy of scale isn't there. Check the price of a bag of grain or soybean meal and compare it to the price of a bag of feed. There isn't that much difference. Then one has to add the correct proportions of the essential nutrients that aren't in soy or grain.
The feed mills are buying everything in bulk and they have the science to know the blend of cheap additives to make a sufficiently nutritious feed.
Weird things one wouldn't suspect go into feed, like ferrous sulfate, which comes from the pickling process in sheet steel manufacture is added to provide iron. I once did an install of enzyme tanks at turkey mills around Arkansas and Missouri to inject a bit of an enzyme in the mix so turkeys could better utilize the protein present in corn thereby they could use less soy, making the feed cheaper to produce. Some of that science is available but some is a closely held corporate secret.
It may exist, but I'm not aware of a vitamin/mineral supplement that is formulated to provide the amounts of each nutrient that will supplement those missing or deficient in one's chosen grain/legume combination.
I still say one of the best advantages to FF is that all those essential added vitamins, minerals and amino acids get bound up in the slop and don't get lost as fines in dry feed.
I'm not happy about it either but until one is a poultry nutrition expert, I recommend buying feed.

I just started doing that here awhile back because I found it much easier to stir in the feed and then discovered it made for a quicker jump start on the fermenting of the new batch also...it's a win/win. So, I've changed to water then feed. Just an accidental, but pleasant, discovery of a side effect.

It does work better with the water first, additionally, my feed is pretty fine with large grain particles and if I don't put water in first, the water won't penetrate all the way through. It can sit and ferment for days and still have dry spots.
I have to add water, add a little feed, stir, repeat, repeat.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I know for human supplements, those are mostly produced a long way from my coop, in places where quality control is questionable. I don't know where feed-grade supplements are produced.

When I was reading the Feeding Poultry book it kept explaining how adding animal products to the ration wasn't just about adding protein to the diet, it was to supply the nutrients missing in the grains. Especially liver consistently improved performance of the poultry, and also milk, and to some extent alfalfa, which is high in nutrients for a plant ... though with modern farming techniques that's less and less true.

But economically feeding a small flock on home-mixed rations? Anywhere but a mild-weathered jungle setting? People crunching numbers before me say stick with commercial poultry rations. So I did, and had very sad looking birds, even with free feeding. Their eggs did taste great.

That said ... I'm less sure about some of the more modern choices for poultry rations ... and I would like to avoid them. "Plant-based proteins" just isn't very specific.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

When I was first starting to research chickens I kept coming across a lot of recipes for feed. People had all these different grains and things that they mixed together to make their own food for their chickens. I don't have room to store stuff like that. I can buy good quality food so that is what I have chosen to do.

Here is one of the recipes that I came across. She also ferments her food.

Some people mix their own food to feed along with store bought. I would worry about doing that since it would be easy to over do something and get the balance off.

We have come a long way from how chickens were fed 200 years ago (kitchen scraps and what ever they could find). Are things better? I would like to think so, but then again, I don't know for certain. So, maybe not....

 

[chickengirl1193]

when i first got chickens i really wanted to mix my own feed but after enough research i figured it wasnt worth it to mix feed for just 4 birds.... although now I'm revisiting the idea because i also want to mix my own goat feed so i feel that if i buy a 50lb bag of oats i can use it for the chickens and the goats so it will be more worth it. I was wondering though, if you can buy grains to make up the bulk of your feed and then use something like the NutriBalancer to provide the vitamins and minerals?
(I have done a lot of research in the past few weeks about my own health and i completely cut out GMO ingredients from my diet and i have been making everything i eat at home like bread and mayo and what not, and in just 2 weeks i feel my own health has improved greatly, so i want to make my eggs and chicken GMO free as well (and in the long run my dairy goats.) But im having an extremely hard time finding non GMO chicken feed available in my area so i feel i might have to start mixing my own)

 

[LindaB220]

@ pdirt It can be done. Research what you need to add to get what vitamins and minerals. I will probably do it later. One thing I can do is get scrap bones from the butcher and pressure cook them and grind in food processor. Add a little ea day to the grains. and I buy Azomite. (rock dust) Cheap enough to last for several years. Tons of minerals. Or add powered dry milk if you don't have ground bone meal. Keep looking.

 

[Ms Jellybean]

when i first got chickens i really wanted to mix my own feed but after enough research i figured it wasnt worth it to mix feed for just 4 birds.... although now I'm revisiting the idea because i also want to mix my own goat feed so i feel that if i buy a 50lb bag of oats i can use it for the chickens and the goats so it will be more worth it. I was wondering though, if you can buy grains to make up the bulk of your feed and then use something like the NutriBalancer to provide the vitamins and minerals?
(I have done a lot of research in the past few weeks about my own health and i completely cut out GMO ingredients from my diet and i have been making everything i eat at home like bread and mayo and what not, and in just 2 weeks i feel my own health has improved greatly, so i want to make my eggs and chicken GMO free as well (and in the long run my dairy goats.) But im having an extremely hard time finding non GMO chicken feed available in my area so i feel i might have to start mixing my own)

Look on Azure. I bought Texas Naturals Feed. It's not organic but it is all non-gmo. I can get it locally, but it might be available other places.

 

[Tikkijane]

I keep trying to remember to add that water first before adding the new feed.. I have remembered a couple of times so far, but a lot of times I forget.. But boy, does it make a huge difference!

I've always done water first. It's WAY easier for me to stir. I add my jugs of water first, which leaves me pretty much with all water. Then I mix my feed; more water/feed for the second bucket, etc.

 

[LindaB220]

When I was first starting to research chickens I kept coming across a lot of recipes for feed. People had all these different grains and things that they mixed together to make their own food for their chickens. I don't have room to store stuff like that. I can buy good quality food so that is what I have chosen to do.

Here is one of the recipes that I came across. She also ferments her food.

Some people mix their own food to feed along with store bought. I would worry about doing that since it would be easy to over do something and get the balance off.

We have come a long way from how chickens were fed 200 years ago (kitchen scraps and what ever they could find). Are things better? I would like to think so, but then again, I don't know for certain. So, maybe not....

Jellybean, I'm retired. I have my first chickens as a hobby. Pleasure, entertainment. Keeping my mind strong. I do research and I enjoy finding new ways to improve using the bagged feeds. I read that recipe and it's ok. Much too involved from what I'm wanting. For instance: wheat, oats, barley, corn. Then fermenting it. Adding Azomite and whatever is missing, I look to see what I need to add. Foraging if possible or sprouting in growout sections in the run. The point is: Research.

 

[chickengirl1193]

Look on Azure. I bought Texas Naturals Feed. It's not organic but it is all non-gmo. I can get it locally, but it might be available other places.

i actually just called Azure and they dont have any locations where i live and i dont think its worth it to ship 50lbs of feed through UPS because of the cost of shipping. I can get an organic feed at my feed store but it is way too expensive and i didnt really like the quality and i dont so much care about organic as much as i care about non GMO and the company had never gotten back to me when i asked if the feed was non GMO or not. If i lived in a different state i dont think i would have such a problem lol. I think my next step will be to go to organic chicken farms in the area and ask what they feed their chickens