FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

I have read and read and read. I often see people asking the same things one after the other and wonder why they don't just read. My husband wonders what I could possibilty be looking at about chickens all the time. But I was coming down to the line on the chicks coming when I discovered through "reading" about the fermented food. I had not heard of it before. I tried to find the info that I lacked but it would have taken me a very long time to read it all and then I may not have found what I lacked. I thought that the purpose of the forum was because folks liked to share info. I appreciate what I have learned from those who have raised chickens. I'm sorry if it's a lot of trouble for you.

No..it's not a lot of trouble for me...not now. But..you see..I was raised by some old fashioned folks who drilled in a work ethic and it kind of stuck. It may not appear like it if you read my posts because I'm all for simple, easy, less work, more good ergonomics on routines, etc. and it would appear like I'm a lazy person. And I am in a lot of ways...I like to take it easy as much as the next person. That's one reason I streamline my life...I like an easy work routine. I'm lazy about some things and I fully admit it.

But..I don't often expect others to do my work for me that I won't do for myself. I draw the line at that. If I were disabled or sick or needed the help for some reason beyond my control, I would love and appreciate the help, but to just expect folks to do my work for me? It just doesn't seem right.

So I'm hung up on principles and old habits of expecting folks to do their own work whenever possible and not expecting others to do it for them unless they have a darn good reason and need the help. I love helping folks...it's what I was born for and my whole life has been one big helping of others and I love it. I don't even see it as a chore because I have joy in it. One thing I don't like, however, is feeling like I'm being taken advantage of just because I like to help folks.

Sometimes certain posts feel like the people are taking advantage of others simply because they don't want to do their own work. When the post starts with words like "I don't want to do all the reading so can you answer my lists of questions. Thanks so much" it feels much like someone feels like others should be their slave because they don't want to do their own work. I could be very wrong about that and forgive me if I am assuming or presuming to know what is going on in that person's life but from this side that's what it feels like... just sometimes. Not all the time...but sometimes. No one likes to feel like they are being taken for granted or taken advantage of simply because they are nice enough to help.

Sometimes I can answer those repetitive questions all day long and twice on Sunday, but sometimes I feel like a person is taking advantage of a kindness and maybe it's just the tone or wording, but it happens now and again and it never feels good. I try to get past it but it still feels wrong, somehow. It could just be me and my hang ups, though, so just ignore it if you think I'm being too sensitive.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I have read and read and read. I often see people asking the same things one after the other and wonder why they don't just read. My husband wonders what I could possibilty be looking at about chickens all the time. But I was coming down to the line on the chicks coming when I discovered through "reading" about the fermented food. I had not heard of it before. I tried to find the info that I lacked but it would have taken me a very long time to read it all and then I may not have found what I lacked. I thought that the purpose of the forum was because folks liked to share info. I appreciate what I have learned from those who have raised chickens. I'm sorry if it's a lot of trouble for you.

We've probably all done it ... asked for the summary when we've "burned out" of reading.

Of course it is "trouble" to draft a fresh reply. That's why writers are so rich. (joke! writing is often a lonely, thankless, tedious chore and enough work that lots of kids refuse to do their homework) Sometimes it feels like a LOT of trouble (especially when someone phrases their question like "I don't want to bother myself, so I'll bother you"), sometimes it feels good to have the opportunity to reorganize your own thoughts ... And of course that's why the forum is here, in this format, where people can converse with each other and have a "safe" place to ask timely questions and get timely answers and talk things through.

Besides all the things I've already posted about how "it would be nice if" BYC had certain functions, it would be VERY nice if the search function here was better. BK's suggestion to google the question, then follow the links back to BYC is pretty much the only way I manage to find things here on BYC.

AND ... of course reading clear through a good procedural thread like this one, to find every nuance and how different people have encountered and solved different problems, is an irreplaceable experience. Yes, you'll have to slog through repetitions and silliness and have to weigh conflicting statements against each other, but that is also why the forum exists in this format ... for people to read it when they need it.

And of course that all works best if people are willing to read.

 

[n3kms]

Because I have been reading off and on for 4 years, including books that I have bought or check out at the library, I have designed a coop that my husband and I have nearly finished. It has a dirt floor. We have buried one row of concrete block and put another on top of that, in hopes of keeping out unwanted guest. We are going to use the deep litter method because it seemed so natural and logical. It is a 10x10 coop for 10 chickens so they have plenty of room. It will have 4 nest boxes. There will be a 300 square foot run with buried fencing to keep out diggers. I am using nipple waterers from Britetap because I liked the idea that the coolers you can attach them to would keep water cool longer during our Tennessee summers. Now I have learned about fermented foods and that also seems natural and logical so I plan to do that. I learned all that from reading on Backyardchickens.com where I thought people liked to share. When I started all I knew how to do was read because I had to figure out how to ask and how to search. Sometimes threads are dead ends and no one answers or it goes off on a tangent or five. Sometimes everthing is discussed but the one question you have. If it seems like I got my feelings hurt by the last couple of post, it is because I did. Just "being honest".

 

[jbher]

I use an 8 quart plastic food grade bucket like the kind you keep pasta or flour in. I started with a glass jar with screw on lid and mine exploded overnight in my kitchen. Plastic buckets can be found for free or cheap in the bakery dept of grocery stores.

I was gonna use cheese cloth on top of the jar some how. I will check out the bakery department - what a great idea!! Thank you!

 

[Beekissed]

Well, the fella that gets his toes stepped on usually yells the loudest.

That goes for me and for you.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

No..it's not a lot of trouble for me...not now. But..you see..I was raised by some old fashioned folks who drilled in a work ethic and it kind of stuck. It may not appear like it if you read my posts because I'm all for simple, easy, less work, more good ergonomics on routines, etc. and it would appear like I'm a lazy person. And I am in a lot of ways...I like to take it easy as much as the next person. That's one reason I streamline my life...I like an easy work routine. I'm lazy about some things and I fully admit it.

But..I don't often expect others to do my work for me that I won't do for myself. I draw the line at that. If I were disabled or sick or needed the help for some reason beyond my control, I would love and appreciate the help, but to just expect folks to do my work for me? It just doesn't seem right.

So I'm hung up on principles and old habits of expecting folks to do their own work whenever possible and not expecting others to do it for them unless they have a darn good reason and need the help. I love helping folks...it's what I was born for and my whole life has been one big helping of others and I love it. I don't even see it as a chore because I have joy in it. One thing I don't like, however, is feeling like I'm being taken advantage of just because I like to help folks.

Sometimes certain posts feel like the people are taking advantage of others simply because they don't want to do their own work. When the post starts with words like "I don't want to do all the reading so can you answer my lists of questions. Thanks so much" it feels much like someone feels like others should be their slave because they don't want to do their own work. I could be very wrong about that and forgive me if I am assuming or presuming to know what is going on in that person's life but from this side that's what it feels like... just sometimes. Not all the time...but sometimes. No one likes to feel like they are being taken for granted or taken advantage of simply because they are nice enough to help.

Sometimes I can answer those repetitive questions all day long and twice on Sunday, but sometimes I feel like a person is taking advantage of a kindness and maybe it's just the tone or wording, but it happens now and again and it never feels good. I try to get past it but it still feels wrong, somehow. It could just be me and my hang ups, though, so just ignore it if you think I'm being too sensitive.

Such a good, sweet, honest post! This is all so true of me, too ... I often feel insulted when people state flatly that they don't want to read but want me to type more. I often think, "Why will they read this new post if they don't want to read the old posts?" If someone says "I read through this whole thread, and three others, and slept on it and now I have a few questions ..." it would not read like an insult to me.

 

[n3kms]

Well there will be no more post from me. So, maybe you can live the rest of your lives in peace. Beekissed, I got the idea you were a well respected person around here. Since I have been reading post that go back several years. So, maybe you have the ability to take my membership down. I looked for a way to do it myself but could not figure out how. If I need help when my chicks arrive then I will find it elsewhere.

 

[Beekissed]

But it's okay if you feel hurt, LJ....just so they don't feel hurt and that's the important thing in all this. Or didn't you know? You can start a thread, do all the initial research, fight off the naysayers and thread trashers, answer a thousand repetitive questions over 2-3 years and do it with patience and a smile, help a full ton of folks....but protest one time about the feeling of being taken for granted due to the tone of a post and you are a meanie. Pure and simple.

Get over it, LJ....I have to all the time. You are a meanie and I'm a meanie and you will learn to accept your title eventually.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

For an anti-dog lid ... and maybe to deter fruit flies if they become an issue ... I was thinking of getting some EZ-Strainers ...

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24071

This is a product designed to fit into the top of a 5 gallon bucket so you can screen debris out of "liquids" like paint.

I don't think it would work to "strain" FF because in my experience the extra liquid in FF wants to be on the top of the feed, so gravity straining FF doesn't actually work in any case, but certainly not with screens this fine.

BUT ... it would make a great "lid" for a 5 gallon bucket of FF because it would let the bucket breathe. No explosions! Always a bonus.
............

Just to recap and give an example of a slightly different system for managing FF that works for my situation:

I have a 5 bucket system ... 5 gallon buckets. I feed a complete 5 gallon bucket of feed each day (feeding over 100 birds, and they also have access to dry food, and YES I do wish things could be arranged so I could reliably provide them with exactly the right amount of FF each and every day so I can take away the dry feed, but I'm not "there" yet and don't know that I ever will be).

IF I'm adding supplements to the basic feed, I stir them into the bucket right before serving the FF.

When the bucket comes back to the kitchen it is empty. I take a couple scoops of feed from the "oldest" bucket and add it to the newly-empty bucket. Then I add in the 2.25 gallons of fresh well water and give it a good stir. Then I add in the the two gallons of feed and stir until it starts to break down and absorb the water. When it starts getting thick enough that it's tough to stir, I let it sit and ferment and "only" stir it twice per day ... morning and night.

To stir I use three different things depending ...

I have a big industrial spoon I use to stir the water into the scoops of feed to "backslop." I also use this spoon to shift the feed from the bucket into the feeder. I love this spoon.

I have a HUGE industrial whisk I use to stir buckets that are up on my counter ... more of a poke, poke, poke than an actual stir cuz the FF is super thick.

I have a manual cement mixing tool I use to stir a bucket if it's on the floor. If I brace the bucket, I can "twirl" the cement mixer, and poke, poke, poke with it and it really does a great job of stirring clear to the bottom and edges of the bucket. Because I can't use my arms much, I often have Dad help with the stirring.

I asked Dad if he would prefer to have a big cooler with a big batch of FF in that, so there is just one thing to stir, and he says he prefers the individual buckets.

We reserve the right to change our minds about any/all of this, though.

AND ... for what it is worth

... I've been working with a animal nutritionist (she is super passionate about this! she is so informed! so plugged into the local sources! and a bit of a marketing wiz on top of all of that) at a local feed company to come up with a flexible custom feed that will meet all our needs here, and to which we can add "supplements" when we have temporary/unique needs. We discussed fermenting, and she says she is a big fan of it! So ...

(She told me she has some customers who call her every time they have a question, and often it is the same question they called about last time. She says she sometimes has to tell them, "You're going to have to write some of this down because I can't keep answering these same basic questions." And she says people do get their feelings hurt by that, but ... ).

 

[Beekissed]

Well there will be no more post from me. So, maybe you can live the rest of your lives in peace. Beekissed, I got the idea you were a well respected person around here. Since I have been reading post that go back several years. So, maybe you have the ability to take my membership down. I looked for a way to do it myself but could not figure out how. If I need help when my chicks arrive then I will find it elsewhere.

I'm sorry you feel that way, truly. But I don't have any power around here at all...none. I'm just here to serve folks like you...voluntarily. And apparently I'm not well respected for it at all because I am not allowed to have any feelings over it at all......ever.