FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Jensownzoo]

Chickens eat to fill there caloric need, not to fill there stomach, because something is better tasting or better for them.

You assert this often, but it is patently false otherwise you wouldn't ever have to worry about overweight chickens.

 

[csaylorchickens]

I just noticed when I give fermented feed one central in a while it helps boost probiotics in their tummies just how we eat yogurt they eat fermented feed from time to time

 

[Chris09]

Quote: WOW, you think I'm just pulling legs, spreading false information?
DO your research.
I have, and I know a few livestock nutritionists that will agree that chickens eat to fill there caloric needs.

Here is just one of may quotes that back my information.
It a quote from a article that High-Line Genetics posted. Maybe you've herd of them there a leader in poultry genetics and produce some of the best egg production fowl in the world...

Quote: The latter is especially important, because hens tend to increase or decrease feed consumption to maintain energy intake within a given range determined by the hens' physical capacity for feed intake. In other words, hens will attempt to consume more of a low-energy diet than of a high-energy diet.

When referring non-meat type chickens, over weight chicks is do to improper and or imbalanced diet.
I (like many, many others) full feed chicken, I have feed in the feeder 24-7, 365 days a year and I don't have a fat chicken on my farm.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Please reread that post/s...
I said in a post,

Quote: I do not ferment grains like,
Corn, Wheat, Milo, Peas, Safflower Seed, Kafir, Oat Groats, Millet, Rape Seed, Rice or Hemp Seed (which I also feed) because they don't have the fibrous, hard to digest hulls and digest just fine in a poultry's digestive system. Now I could eliminate the fermentation processes all together just by switching the Whole Oats to Oat Groats and the Boss to Sunflower Hearts but by fermenting in the Apple Juice and Poultry Cell mix these grains absorbed these liquids and I don't have to supplement the Apple Juice and Poultry Cell in the water during breeding and show season.

 

[Jensownzoo]

WOW,  you think I'm just pulling legs, spreading false information?
DO your research.
I have, and I know a few livestock nutritionists that will agree that chickens eat to fill there caloric needs.

Of course I do my research. It's an outdated assertion. Here's the journal abtract that addresses it directly: http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajava.2011.20.28&org=10

You'll notice that the date on the paper is 2011. In 2009 there was a flurry of research done on the mechanisms involved in chicken satiety (and hunger) as it was poorly understood if/how it differed from mammalian mechanisms. Selective breeding has altered the controls in lines of chickens, especially evident between broilers and layers, but also between lines within those two groups. Here is a selection of papers regarding that mechanism if you want to get into the nitty-gritty:

Genetic selection for growth rate alters hypothalamic satiety mechanisms in chickens
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01071874

Genetic Control of Food Intake in Chickens
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/124/8_Suppl/1341S.extract

Eating behaviour, and preprandial and postprandial correlations in male broiler and layer chickens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584843

Decreased expression of the satiety signal receptor CCKAR is responsible for increased growth and body weight during the domestication of chickens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23443924

The endocrine control of energy homeostasis in chickens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23707377

Hypothalamic agouti-related protein expression is affected by both acute and chronic experience of food restriction and re-feeding in chickens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23957836

Feeding response following central administration of chicken vasoactive intestinal peptide in chicks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23321399

Effects of dietary energy concentration, nonstarch polysaccharide concentration, and particle sizes of nonstarch polysaccharides on digesta mean retention time and gut development in laying hens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22221239

Short-term feeding behaviour has a similar structure in broilers, turkeys and ducks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21161777

Neuropeptide VF-associated satiety involves mu and kappa but not delta subtypes of opioid receptors in chicks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19429120

Satiety induced by central stresscopin is mediated by corticotrophin-releasing factor receptors and hypothalamic changes in chicks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19324068

Effect of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) on avian appetite-related processes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18835571


In addition to structured scientific research, try googling "overweight chickens" and "obese chickens" for a layperson's take on the growing problem. If chicken satiety was purely governed by caloric needs, there would be no overweight/obese chickens.

 

[Jensownzoo]

Please reread that post/s...
I said in a post,

 
I do not ferment grains like,
Corn, Wheat, Milo, Peas, Safflower Seed, Kafir, Oat Groats, Millet, Rape Seed, Rice or Hemp Seed (which I also feed) because they don't have the fibrous, hard to digest hulls and digest just fine in a poultry's digestive system. Now I could eliminate the fermentation processes all together just by switching the Whole Oats to Oat Groats and the Boss to Sunflower Hearts but by fermenting in the Apple Juice and Poultry Cell mix these grains absorbed these liquids and I don't have to supplement the Apple Juice and Poultry Cell in the water during breeding and show season. 

You're right, you did state that about ten pages back or so. But what do you think fermentation does to the fibrous hulls that simply soaking them in water (plus your liquid additives) won't do? The microbes involved in fermentation go for the more easily digested soluble fiber over the insoluable fiber. The softening primarily comes from the influx of water into the cells...kinda similar to the wrinkly skin we get in the bath. This disruption in the cell membranes would easily allow your fermenting microbes access to the inner goodness of the seed, where it would offer the same benefits as fermenting feed, though to a lesser degree since you feed this as a 10% portion of total diet. Still, not a bad supplement.

I wonder if the boost in digestibility you are seeking from the ferment would be even greater if the seed were ground? You'd have to feed it fairly immediately though, so no fermenting, otherwise you would also see a drop in certain nutrients from oxidative processes. Hmmm...I bet the nutritional benefits from fermenting a whole grain ration might be even greater than that from the ground/pelleted ration if compared side-by-side and standardized in regards to components for that reason. My bank account is not going to let me experiment with that right now, but maybe at some future date I could set up my own trial...

 

[Bridebeliever]

I just want to chime in completely "unscientifically" in regards to chicken obesity. My chickens are not overweight as far as I can tell from looking at them. I only feed them chicken feed. Generally 16-18% layer feed. I ferment and I free feed dry feed. What I don't do is feed them any human food. Certainly ZERO processed food. They don't get any table scraps. On a very rare occasion I give them scrambled eggs with some flax seed sprinkled on top. Could this be why some chickens become obese? I have friends that feed their chickens like they are pigs slopping all the human food you could think at them! Just a thought.

 

[Molpet]

I grew up raising horses, show dogs , chickens and other animals. Some, in any species, are 'easy keepers' , that when fed the same ration as others get to be obese. Some are thin as a rail on those same rations. Always assumed some metabolized feed better than others, since they were the same size animal. received the same measured amount of the same feed . ..

 

[Chris09]

I grew up raising horses, show dogs , chickens and other animals. Some, in any species, are 'easy keepers' , that when fed the same ration as others get to be obese. Some are thin as a rail on those same rations. Always assumed some metabolized feed better than others, since they were the same size animal. received the same measured amount of the same feed . ..

Very true metabolism is a factor in weather or not a chicken or any animal is obese or not just the same as a imbalanced diet.
Say if a chicken has a low or slow metabolism rate that chicken will be a bit more over weight than one that has a higher metabolism.
Just the same a chicken that's kept in a small/ under sized coop or is just plain lazy will also be over weigh compared to a more active one.

 

[Chris09]

I just want to chime in completely "unscientifically" in regards to chicken obesity. My chickens are not overweight as far as I can tell from looking at them. I only feed them chicken feed. Generally 16-18% layer feed. I ferment and I free feed dry feed. What I don't do is feed them any human food. Certainly ZERO processed food. They don't get any table scraps. On a very rare occasion I give them scrambled eggs with some flax seed sprinkled on top. Could this be why some chickens become obese? I have friends that feed their chickens like they are pigs slopping all the human food you could think at them! Just a thought.

By feeding say, lots of table scraps or offering lots of "treats" there creating a imbalanced and improper diet.
The imbalanced diet along with other key factors like low activeness and low/ slow metabolism etc. will create a over weight bird.