fermenting feed and protein levels

[Shadrach]

I'm still reading. It matters what exactly you are fermenting and which fermenting process one uses, right?


"The content and quality of cereal proteins may be improved by fermentation (Wang and Fields 1978; Cahvan et al. 1988). Natural fermentation of cereals increases their relative nutritive value and available lysine (Hamad and Fields 1979) (Fig. 4). Bacterial fermentations involving proteolytic activity are expected to increase the biological availability of essential amino acids more so than yeast fermentations which mainly degrade carbohydrates (Chaven and Kadam 1989). Starch and fiber tend to decrease during fermentation of cereals (El-Tinay et al. 1979). Although it would not be expected that fermentation would alter the mineral content of the product, the hydrolysis of chelating agents such as phytic acid during fermentation, improves the bioavailability of minerals. Changes in the vitamin content of cereals with fermentation vary according to the fermentation process, and the raw material used in the fermentation. B group vitamins generally show an increase on fermentation (Chavan et al. 1989) (Fig. 5). During the fermentation of maize or kaffircorn in the preparation of kaffir beer, thiamine levels are virtually unchanged, but riboflavin and niacin contents almost double (Steinkraus 1994)."

I don't doubt there are lots of chemical changes when various base grains/foods are fermented. I don't have much doubt about improved digestability for the chickens either.
There is something in the back of my mind I think I learnt regarding proteins that makes me doubt that the actual protein content changes; I just can't drag up the relevant science at the moment.

 

[Kiki]

I don't doubt there are lots of chemical changes when various base grains/foods are fermented. I don't have much doubt about improved digestability for the chickens either.
There is something in the back of my mind I think I learnt regarding proteins that makes me doubt that the actual protein content changes; I just can't drag up the relevant science at the moment.

I'm having trouble with this whole protein content changes too. I still don't get how it could increase.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I saw in an earlier post of yours that you give feed with protein content as high as 24%.
Out here that level of protein is usually confined to the layer feeds that also have high calcium levels.

Most starter feeds here have 22% protein and 1 ish calcium... to achieve the higher protein mixes... I use GAME BIRD or TURKEY STARTER. The turkey starter has 30% protein.

You could confirm if your calcium content was contributing to early cock mortality through necropsy... I would think if that were the cause... you should see evidence when inspecting the kidneys... since the excess calcium is said to possibly cause gout or kidney failure. Noting that excess protein can cause the SAME thing, just a different type. I expect the excess protein has to be very high... more like 40% +... the calcium, according to my research only has to be in excess of 3% fed long term to birds not in lay.

Centrar makes a good point... in that the claims on fermenting aren't claiming to increase the protein... but the digestibility of the protein that is already there.

I am currently reading this, not finished yet.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e06.htm

An interesting read... I had figured the availability of said nutrients was factored in... before levels were set... I see that likely isn't the case.

 

[Kiki]

Most starter feeds here have 22% protein and 1 ish calcium... to achieve the higher protein mixes... I use GAME BIRD or TURKEY STARTER. The turkey starter has 30% protein.

You could confirm if your calcium content was contributing to early cock mortality through necropsy... I would think if that were the cause... you should see evidence when inspecting the kidneys... since the excess calcium is said to possibly cause gout or kidney failure. Noting that excess protein can cause the SAME thing, just a different type. I expect the excess protein has to be very high... more like 40% +... the calcium, according to my research only has to be in excess of 3% fed long term to birds not in lay.

Centrar makes a good point... in that the claims on fermenting aren't claiming to increase the protein... but the digestibility of the protein that is already there.


An interesting read... I had figured the availability of said nutrients was factored in... before levels were set... I see that likely isn't the case.

Why does everyone think that feeding fermented feed increase the protein percentage then? That drives me nuts!

 

[Kiki]

 

[centrarchid]

Why does everyone think that feeding fermented feed increase the protein percentage then? That drives me nuts!

If what I suggested previously holds, then the fermentation process does increase protein concentration of what is consumed, but does not provide a net increase in protein relative to what you start with. The fermentation process simply screens out some of the energy that is in the fermented carbohydrates.

 

[Kiki]

If what I suggested previously holds, then the fermentation process does increase protein concentration of what is consumed, but does not provide a net increase in protein relative to what you start with. The fermentation process simply screens out some of the energy that is in the fermented carbohydrates.

I don't think that the average person understands this. They assume it increases the total.

 

[Cayuga momma]

I just read that the legumes and cereal grain in feeds aren't easily digested. They decrease the amount of amino acids and proteins absorbed into the body. Adding a dairy product to legume and cereal grain feeds makes the proteins become complete proteins for better nutrition intake.
- The Chicken Health Handbook pg 46.

I have a friend who adds buttermilk to her feed and her chickens look really good and her eggs taste better.

Hope this helps

 

[Kiki]

I just read that the legumes and cereal grain in feeds aren't easily digested. They decrease the amount of amino acids and proteins absorbed into the body. Adding a dairy product to legume and cereal grain feeds makes the proteins become complete proteins for better nutrition intake.
- The Chicken Health Handbook pg 46.

I have a friend who adds buttermilk to her feed and her chickens look really good and her eggs taste better.

Hope this helps

Can you post a photo of this page in your book please?

 

[Cayuga momma]

Can you post a photo of this page in your book please?

Yep give me a sec