fermenting feed and protein levels

[digbychris]

This resource I found thinks it will increase protein content by 12% and reduce consumption.
http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html?m=1

great article! thanks so much!

 

[Melky]

Looking at that article it states useable protien.....that does not necessarily mean there is more in the food.

They agree it is either more or same. Certainly not less. It’s used in both meat birds and hens so I think they could switch to FF on both it’s discussed in the article.

 

[Kiki]

Hi there!

I fermented for 2 years... so I will give you my take.

I will start by saying that I feed 20% protein flock raiser to ALL of my birds from start to finish. And all the labels like layer, meat bird, finisher, grower, starter... are all confusing terms and each company makes up their own name... MAIN (not only) difference is protein and calcium.

First I saw almost NO savings... people who do see the most saving are those who this diminished waste for.

Some feeds already have probiotics added in... and you could add some by using raw acv in your water. And to me... you don't get something for nothing. While some nutrients will rise slightly, others will decrease... and formulated rations... are FORMULATED to meet the need of the birds.

Check out this article of you haven't seen it...
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

It claims to increase protein by "12%"... but that can be a bit confusing of a statement... noting it doesn't make 20% protein into 32%... but rather this is how I figure it... 0.20 X 0.12= 0.224 or 22.4% protein... So their is SOME increase... however... none of the studies focus on what is now decreased that I have seen. One person actually sited a study that had two sets of birds one raised on FF and the other dry... The FF birds were lighter for a period of time in the beginning but eventually caught up to the dry fed birds... I WISH I could find that post again and I feel like it was about 8 weeks... BUT the memory is a feeble thing. Either way... I'm wondering if this "conversion" alters the caloric content... but feel as though it must alter something... if you don't FEED the ferment with fresh stuff... the bacteria runs out of stuff to digest... so is it using calories or turning itself into calories or what?!

Anyways... after doing ONLY for 2 years... it did NOT save me the 30% many claim... maybe not even 10%... but I spent TOO much time and energy doing it for a very large flock, think 30 gallon trash can.. I quit for the longest time as decided it was MOSTLY hype... now I offer FF as a breakfast and they seem to enjoy it.

One thing is... it will be especially beneficial for flocks who may be struggling... But like with vitamins or other supplements.. will do very little for those who already have nicely balanced immune systems. In MY experience.

I always appreciate a logical and intelligent conversation and love to see what others are thinking!

Fermented feed for laying hens: effects on egg production, egg quality ...

eta: re broiler weight https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29126320

 

[Kiki]

I have been feeding fermented feed for years and I do not do so because of the claim that it saves money.

I do not find that to be true for me.

 

[Melky]

Hi there!

I fermented for 2 years... so I will give you my take.

I will start by saying that I feed 20% protein flock raiser to ALL of my birds from start to finish. And all the labels like layer, meat bird, finisher, grower, starter... are all confusing terms and each company makes up their own name... MAIN (not only) difference is protein and calcium.

First I saw almost NO savings... people who do see the most saving are those who this diminished waste for.

Some feeds already have probiotics added in... and you could add some by using raw acv in your water. And to me... you don't get something for nothing. While some nutrients will rise slightly, others will decrease... and formulated rations... are FORMULATED to meet the need of the birds.

Check out this article of you haven't seen it...
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

It claims to increase protein by "12%"... but that can be a bit confusing of a statement... noting it doesn't make 20% protein into 32%... but rather this is how I figure it... 0.20 X 0.12= 0.224 or 22.4% protein... So their is SOME increase... however... none of the studies focus on what is now decreased that I have seen. One person actually sited a study that had two sets of birds one raised on FF and the other dry... The FF birds were lighter for a period of time in the beginning but eventually caught up to the dry fed birds... I WISH I could find that post again and I feel like it was about 8 weeks... BUT the memory is a feeble thing. Either way... I'm wondering if this "conversion" alters the caloric content... but feel as though it must alter something... if you don't FEED the ferment with fresh stuff... the bacteria runs out of stuff to digest... so is it using calories or turning itself into calories or what?!

Anyways... after doing ONLY for 2 years... it did NOT save me the 30% many claim... maybe not even 10%... but I spent TOO much time and energy doing it for a very large flock, think 30 gallon trash can.. I quit for the longest time as decided it was MOSTLY hype... now I offer FF as a breakfast and they seem to enjoy it.

One thing is... it will be especially beneficial for flocks who may be struggling... But like with vitamins or other supplements.. will do very little for those who already have nicely balanced immune systems. In MY experience.

I always appreciate a logical and intelligent conversation and love to see what others are thinking!

I think you make a good point in weight increase. The article I put up discusses that meat birds put on weight better with FF than dry which is key in raising meatbirds when compared to dry. Thanks for the input!

 

[digbychris]

Hi there!

I fermented for 2 years... so I will give you my take.

I will start by saying that I feed 20% protein flock raiser to ALL of my birds from start to finish. And all the labels like layer, meat bird, finisher, grower, starter... are all confusing terms and each company makes up their own name... MAIN (not only) difference is protein and calcium.

First I saw almost NO savings... people who do see the most saving are those who this diminished waste for.

Some feeds already have probiotics added in... and you could add some by using raw acv in your water. And to me... you don't get something for nothing. While some nutrients will rise slightly, others will decrease... and formulated rations... are FORMULATED to meet the need of the birds.

Check out this article of you haven't seen it...
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

It claims to increase protein by "12%"... but that can be a bit confusing of a statement... noting it doesn't make 20% protein into 32%... but rather this is how I figure it... 0.20 X 0.12= 0.224 or 22.4% protein... So their is SOME increase... however... none of the studies focus on what is now decreased that I have seen. One person actually sited a study that had two sets of birds one raised on FF and the other dry... The FF birds were lighter for a period of time in the beginning but eventually caught up to the dry fed birds... I WISH I could find that post again and I feel like it was about 8 weeks... BUT the memory is a feeble thing. Either way... I'm wondering if this "conversion" alters the caloric content... but feel as though it must alter something... if you don't FEED the ferment with fresh stuff... the bacteria runs out of stuff to digest... so is it using calories or turning itself into calories or what?!

Anyways... after doing ONLY for 2 years... it did NOT save me the 30% many claim... maybe not even 10%... but I spent TOO much time and energy doing it for a very large flock, think 30 gallon trash can.. I quit for the longest time as decided it was MOSTLY hype... now I offer FF as a breakfast and they seem to enjoy it.

One thing is... it will be especially beneficial for flocks who may be struggling... But like with vitamins or other supplements.. will do very little for those who already have nicely balanced immune systems. In MY experience.

I always appreciate a logical and intelligent conversation and love to see what others are thinking!

So you didn't notice any change in egg production, either? More eggs or larger eggs? I'll be honest I'm not too excited to add time and steps to my routine but I'm seeing a lot of wet poop, a very long (over a month) molt and it will be winter soon and even less laying. So according hundreds of websites fermentation should help.... In the end I'll just try it and see if it makes any difference. thanks for your reply! I agree I'm skeptical of huge savings.

 

[Shadrach]

This is a good read:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e06.htm

"The content and quality of cereal proteins may be improved by fermentation (Wang and Fields 1978; Cahvan et al. 1988). Natural fermentation of cereals increases their relative nutritive value and available lysine (Hamad and Fields 1979) (Fig. 4). Bacterial fermentations involving proteolytic activity are expected to increase the biological availability of essential amino acids more so than yeast fermentations which mainly degrade carbohydrates (Chaven and Kadam 1989). Starch and fiber tend to decrease during fermentation of cereals (El-Tinay et al. 1979). Although it would not be expected that fermentation would alter the mineral content of the product, the hydrolysis of chelating agents such as phytic acid during fermentation, improves the bioavailability of minerals. Changes in the vitamin content of cereals with fermentation vary according to the fermentation process, and the raw material used in the fermentation. B group vitamins generally show an increase on fermentation (Chavan et al. 1989) (Fig. 5). During the fermentation of maize or kaffircorn in the preparation of kaffir beer, thiamine levels are virtually unchanged, but riboflavin and niacin contents almost double (Steinkraus 1994)."

Interesting. So there are some chemicla changes in the vitamins.

 

[Melky]

So you didn't notice any change in egg production, either? More eggs or larger eggs? I'll be honest I'm not too excited to add time and steps to my routine but I'm seeing a lot of wet poop, a very long (over a month) molt and it will be winter soon and even less laying. So according hundreds of websites fermentation should help.... In the end I'll just try it and see if it makes any difference. thanks for your reply! I agree I'm skeptical of huge savings.

I think it provides savings if done well. I am collecting my cost expenditures to compare over time but here was the kicker in the first batch that provides savings. It makes more. I added two cups feed and two cups water. I usually set out 2 cups per day say of dry. When I did FF, I wound up with little over 3 cups versus two. I now have 1 1/2 days worth instead of one. You be the judge and try!

 

[Shadrach]

Hi there!

I fermented for 2 years... so I will give you my take.

I will start by saying that I feed 20% protein flock raiser to ALL of my birds from start to finish. And all the labels like layer, meat bird, finisher, grower, starter... are all confusing terms and each company makes up their own name... MAIN (not only) difference is protein and calcium.

First I saw almost NO savings... people who do see the most saving are those who this diminished waste for.

Some feeds already have probiotics added in... and you could add some by using raw acv in your water. And to me... you don't get something for nothing. While some nutrients will rise slightly, others will decrease... and formulated rations... are FORMULATED to meet the need of the birds.

Check out this article of you haven't seen it...
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

It claims to increase protein by "12%"... but that can be a bit confusing of a statement... noting it doesn't make 20% protein into 32%... but rather this is how I figure it... 0.20 X 0.12= 0.224 or 22.4% protein... So their is SOME increase... however... none of the studies focus on what is now decreased that I have seen. One person actually sited a study that had two sets of birds one raised on FF and the other dry... The FF birds were lighter for a period of time in the beginning but eventually caught up to the dry fed birds... I WISH I could find that post again and I feel like it was about 8 weeks... BUT the memory is a feeble thing. Either way... I'm wondering if this "conversion" alters the caloric content... but feel as though it must alter something... if you don't FEED the ferment with fresh stuff... the bacteria runs out of stuff to digest... so is it using calories or turning itself into calories or what?!

Anyways... after doing ONLY for 2 years... it did NOT save me the 30% many claim... maybe not even 10%... but I spent TOO much time and energy doing it for a very large flock, think 30 gallon trash can.. I quit for the longest time as decided it was MOSTLY hype... now I offer FF as a breakfast and they seem to enjoy it.

One thing is... it will be especially beneficial for flocks who may be struggling... But like with vitamins or other supplements.. will do very little for those who already have nicely balanced immune systems. In MY experience.

I always appreciate a logical and intelligent conversation and love to see what others are thinking!

I'll read that later. Good point about manufacturers claims and unsubstantiated claims by 'interested' parties.

 

[Kiki]

One more
This one isn't about chickens but it is the same general concept.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25838899