fermenting feed and protein levels

[Shadrach]

I make a mash and feed a minute later after I mix it.
I use room temperature water or cold water on hot summer days.
I originally started to offer them wet mash last summer during a heatwave.
Feed consumption was way down and egg production dropped off.
Within three days egg production increased.
During the summer since I started to offer wet mash my two layers (30 months old tomorrow) gave me a dozen eggs a week, and still are as they have started to molt.View attachment 1546711. I feed them a 18% Non-Medicated Starter-Grower normally, but started them on medicated Start and Grow when their feed ran out, as I have 6 week old chicks,View attachment 1546721 .so the hens also get it till I switch the chicks to Non-Medicated feed after 10 weeks. Chicks are shown at 5 weeks. GC
ETA; I only give wet mash as a treat once a day. They have dry feed 24/7 and eat it eagerly when we're not in a heatwave.

I'm in the process of changing from layers pellets 22% protein, 4.8% calcium to a multi feed at 18% protein and 1.2% calcium. The multi feed is a rough powder.
I started with instant mash..now I'm on a day old.

 

[Shadrach]

I do not clean up dry food anymore if that helps and my hens don’t waste a drop.

The point that I might have missed is “

what are you fermenting
“ pellets will expand and appear larger once soaked but the cracked grains in my feed will only swell a little ,

Mine do eat less feed buy the cup , and there’s no waste on the floors , poop does smell less maybe due to apple cider vinegar ?? And they can’t pick out their favourite pieces only once it’s all mushy ......

I do it because fermented feed is good for their gut and aids with easy digestion , but I always offer both ff and dry.

Multi feed, a sort of powder. See above.

 

[Shadrach]

Fermenting or making mash is the same amount of effort to me, try it when you are ready.

The rats quickly adjust! I collect feed every night or hang out of reach, not less then 3 feeders per pen. Rats don't seem to care very much crushed hot red pepper flakes or powder... and chickens don't have capsaicin receptors. To the rats!

I only get heavy waste if I use the wrong type of feeders. But I quickly adjust as well... going through 2-3 50# bags per week adds up quickly... even without feeding free loaders or the lawn!

Yeah the rats will be back, but it's a start. I never leave feed out; not even during the day.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

OK well my brain never stops... so what I wonder is...

If my feed is "wheat" based (instead of corn)... and I ferment.... if I stir EXTRA... does it develop more (gluten) wheat protein... the more I stir... or is there more the whole gluten wheat protein thing then I realize?

Different feeds do indeed ferment differently... and one I feel like just get's stickier every time I stir.

 

[Melky]

I’m feeding Natures Best organic starter grower crumble and switching over to Big Sky 16% layer organic feed after finished with bag. It’s like Scratch n Peck but cheaper. So the fermenting process is more like soaking/sprouting whole grains then.

 

[GC-Raptor]

I'm in the process of changing from layers pellets 22% protein, 4.8% calcium to a multi feed at 18% protein and 1.2% calcium. The multi feed is a rough powder.
I started with instant mash..now I'm on a day old.

Yeah, my feed is the same consistency, . It's 18% Protein and 1% Calcium average. I offer Oyster Shells separately. GC

 

[digbychris]

Nope!

All hens produce larger eggs as they are growing into their mature size. No increased production... genetics will limit this in my opinion. Does it take 25 hours (or how ever long) to make a single egg? People who say their birds lay "sooner" have been breeding and selecting for that trait. And honestly... contrary to popular belief, I think confined birds MIGHT actually lay more than free range.

Wet poo can be effected by your weather... that's how all their urates come out...

Any chicks not raised with a hen... basically refused to eat this even if it was all that was offered from day... I never have that issue with dry.

But... I do enjoy experimenting... and stirring a FLUFFY batch of FF can be kinda fun.

I did see a change in smell in my brooder chick poo initially... but eventually it ALL smells like poo. The more people I told my birds didn't have diarrhea... they said neither do theirs... and still now neither do mine.

But hey... if you buy in... you can get 30% more birds with your expected saving!

One of those articles indicate you can get increased digestibility JUST by wetting the feed.

This link is also on pigs... and suggest there is benefit... but there is a point of limited return... meaning at least in this article... 10% had the most benefit over 15% (soy bean meal)..
https://microbialcellfactories.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12934-017-0809-3

I still think the benefit comes *most* to those who actually NEED the extra probiotic support... which I ALWAYS support with probiotics if needed before considering anti biotics.

This has been a great discussion for me to consider my choice and thoughts on the subject.

I haven't reviewed this one yet... but it looks to be informative... AND about broilers!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003989/

Still digesting!

ETA: regarding getting through molt... I just feed a higher protein diet... it works VERY well.

thanks! I didn't know about higher protein during a molt. I appreciate that info!

 

[Morrigan]

Any chicks not raised with a hen... basically refused to eat this even if it was all that was offered from day... I never have that issue with dry.

It must depend on the birds, or perhaps the feed being fermented. With my meat birds, they have always gotten FF from day 1, and they go straight for it. This year, to test it, I put out both FF and dry. They overwhelming preferred the FF -- the dish would be picked clean and the dry food barely touched. I also offered laying chicks I brooded both wet and dry this year, and they ate both fairly equally. I just use water and time to ferment, not ACV, so that may make a difference.

For my adult birds, I keep a no spill feeder of dry food in their coop at all times, and put FF in dishes outside. A couple of birds seek out the dry, but most prefer the FF. The only time they don't like it, is if it starts getting too sour. I've got a pretty good nose now, for when it's approaching that point, and then it's time to wash out the bucket completely and start up a new batch.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

thanks! I didn't know about higher protein during a molt. I appreciate that info!

Yes, feathers are made from 90% protein and it's amino acids. Sometimes I use 30% turkey starter or 26% game bird and mix with my usual 20% flock raiser... 22% protein was shown to give the best hatch rates, which to me says more nutrients in the eggs that are being consumed (yes we eat fertile eggs collected and refrigerated daily). Show people are *said* to feed higher as it is known to give shinier, fuller feathers. "Feather Fixer" has "more protein" (than most layer feeds) at 18%... I don't know... birds in nature seem to change their diet depending on season and what's impending... example... hummers are mostly nectar feeders, but during baby season they are some fly snatching little beasts! My birds don't seem to recognize season too much... not much swing in temps or available nutrition... I keep it fairly solid as far as what provided... but I'm sure pasture conditions change... And of course day light and time amount consuming nutrients does change as I don't do artificial lighting. Some people do change their diet with the season. I feel like 20% is a nice happy medium... for my dual purpose and multiple stage flock. Since I have chicks I really won't go lower than that. I rarely offer treats on occasion to include animal protein sources and during times of extended confinement due to bad weather, predators, or the like I enjoy sprouting or fodder... always in moderation.

Different birds definitely respond differently. And almost none enjoy the sour state. I have been able to mix a larger than normal batch for a couple days if that ever happened.

It's true at breakfast there are a lot of my birds who rush for the FF while others eat dry now that both are available. Sometimes I feel like pecking order is playing a part in this... maybe all want the FF. I'm not 100% on FF band wagon, but I enjoy doing it some as I like science type stuff. I feel a lot more balanced offering both than when I just offered FF and then they went crazy for dry... So I used the dry as a "treat"! But still fully balanced nutrition. They may be disappointed if I quit doing FF breakfast... Essentially I started the breakfast as way offering some enrichment through variety... but here I am again carrying a heavy 5 gallon bucket to my different feeding stations.. Anyways, it's partly for me... I do the activity instead of going to the gym.

But I bookmarked a bunch of things to read through again for some better details. Love all the links... but also the shares of different personal experiences.

 

[Shadrach]

It must depend on the birds, or perhaps the feed being fermented. With my meat birds, they have always gotten FF from day 1, and they go straight for it. This year, to test it, I put out both FF and dry. They overwhelming preferred the FF -- the dish would be picked clean and the dry food barely touched. I also offered laying chicks I brooded both wet and dry this year, and they ate both fairly equally. I just use water and time to ferment, not ACV, so that may make a difference.

For my adult birds, I keep a no spill feeder of dry food in their coop at all times, and put FF in dishes outside. A couple of birds seek out the dry, but most prefer the FF. The only time they don't like it, is if it starts getting too sour. I've got a pretty good nose now, for when it's approaching that point, and then it's time to wash out the bucket completely and start up a new batch.

How long do you ferment with just water?