fermenting feed and protein levels

[Shadrach]

Yes, feathers are made from 90% protein and it's amino acids. Sometimes I use 30% turkey starter or 26% game bird and mix with my usual 20% flock raiser... 22% protein was shown to give the best hatch rates, which to me says more nutrients in the eggs that are being consumed (yes we eat fertile eggs collected and refrigerated daily). Show people are *said* to feed higher as it is known to give shinier, fuller feathers. "Feather Fixer" has "more protein" (than most layer feeds) at 18%... I don't know... birds in nature seem to change their diet depending on season and what's impending... example... hummers are mostly nectar feeders, but during baby season they are some fly snatching little beasts! My birds don't seem to recognize season too much... not much swing in temps or available nutrition... I keep it fairly solid as far as what provided... but I'm sure pasture conditions change... And of course day light and time amount consuming nutrients does change as I don't do artificial lighting. Some people do change their diet with the season. I feel like 20% is a nice happy medium... for my dual purpose and multiple stage flock. Since I have chicks I really won't go lower than that. I rarely offer treats on occasion to include animal protein sources and during times of extended confinement due to bad weather, predators, or the like I enjoy sprouting or fodder... always in moderation.

Different birds definitely respond differently. And almost none enjoy the sour state. I have been able to mix a larger than normal batch for a couple days if that ever happened.

It's true at breakfast there are a lot of my birds who rush for the FF while others eat dry now that both are available. Sometimes I feel like pecking order is playing a part in this... maybe all want the FF. I'm not 100% on FF band wagon, but I enjoy doing it some as I like science type stuff. I feel a lot more balanced offering both than when I just offered FF and then they went crazy for dry... So I used the dry as a "treat"! But still fully balanced nutrition. They may be disappointed if I quit doing FF breakfast... Essentially I started the breakfast as way offering some enrichment through variety... but here I am again carrying a heavy 5 gallon bucket to my different feeding stations.. Anyways, it's partly for me... I do the activity instead of going to the gym.

But I bookmarked a bunch of things to read through again for some better details. Love all the links... but also the shares of different personal experiences.

Do you think supplying a higher protein food during molt makes any difference?
I give walnuts as treat food most days which have high easy to digest protein and of course oil which is important.
They eat so much yukky stuff when free ranging if I fed them chopped toad I doubt they would notice

 

[guardianoftheflock]

Hi All!! I have recently been researching on the lacto-fermenting process and would like to try it. I have only ever fed my flocks (both layer and meat) crumbles from the store, either for layer or meat, so the protein levels are different. I think my layer crumble is 16% and my finisher for the meat birds is 21-22%. The layers range, and my Cornish chicks are in a large moving tractor (and their feed is removed at night).
My question is this: Will fermenting the crumbles I have do anything to the protein levels of the feed? In my limited experience the layer hens can eat whatever, but cornish chicks seem to survive better on an appropriate protein level feed and I don't want to mess that up. I read a lot about probiotics and nutrient levels, lower feed costs, egg benefits, etc but I can't seem to find any information about protein levels.

Thanks for any help and info!

Ya, I would say that it wouldn't decrease the protein. I fed my Cornish Xs fermented feed and it didn't seem to change anything. I've heard it's supposed to lower your feed bill too, but I'm not completely convinced about that. I don't think it will hurt them.

 

[Soon2BChixMom]

Hi there!

I fermented for 2 years... so I will give you my take.

I will start by saying that I feed 20% protein flock raiser to ALL of my birds from start to finish. And all the labels like layer, meat bird, finisher, grower, starter... are all confusing terms and each company makes up their own name... MAIN (not only) difference is protein and calcium.

First I saw almost NO savings... people who do see the most saving are those who this diminished waste for.

Some feeds already have probiotics added in... and you could add some by using raw acv in your water. And to me... you don't get something for nothing. While some nutrients will rise slightly, others will decrease... and formulated rations... are FORMULATED to meet the need of the birds.

Check out this article of you haven't seen it...
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

It claims to increase protein by "12%"... but that can be a bit confusing of a statement... noting it doesn't make 20% protein into 32%... but rather this is how I figure it... 0.20 X 0.12= 0.224 or 22.4% protein... So their is SOME increase... however... none of the studies focus on what is now decreased that I have seen. One person actually sited a study that had two sets of birds one raised on FF and the other dry... The FF birds were lighter for a period of time in the beginning but eventually caught up to the dry fed birds... I WISH I could find that post again and I feel like it was about 8 weeks... BUT the memory is a feeble thing. Either way... I'm wondering if this "conversion" alters the caloric content... but feel as though it must alter something... if you don't FEED the ferment with fresh stuff... the bacteria runs out of stuff to digest... so is it using calories or turning itself into calories or what?!

Anyways... after doing ONLY for 2 years... it did NOT save me the 30% many claim... maybe not even 10%... but I spent TOO much time and energy doing it for a very large flock, think 30 gallon trash can.. I quit for the longest time as decided it was MOSTLY hype... now I offer FF as a breakfast and they seem to enjoy it.

One thing is... it will be especially beneficial for flocks who may be struggling... But like with vitamins or other supplements.. will do very little for those who already have nicely balanced immune systems. In MY experience.

I always appreciate a logical and intelligent conversation and love to see what others are thinking!

Just asking for clarification, you fermented crumbles?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Do you think supplying a higher protein food during molt makes any difference?
I give walnuts as treat food most days which have high easy to digest protein and of course oil which is important.
They eat so much yukky stuff when free ranging if I fed them chopped toad I doubt they would notice

100% I think higher protein levels during molt makes a huge difference. But I feel as though feeding "higher" on a regular basis has impact on what reserves they have available when they head into molt as well.

And I like walnuts (myself way to pricey for birds)... BUT... not sure their protein contains the amino acids that are partly key. That's why I say animal and not plant source protein.

 

[Kiki]

Just asking for clarification, you fermented crumbles?

I do.
and to OP
It depends on where you actually ferment...the temperature.

I do so right on my kitchen counter top.
It usually takes mine about 3 days to ferment with plain water, nothing added.
I reserve a small amount each day to start the next batch which is ready over night.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Just asking for clarification, you fermented crumbles?

Yes, I fermented crumbles and pellets and dog food! Lol

I had to see... it was both disgusting and fantastic fun.

ETA: The dog food is NOT suggested!

 

[Kiki]

Yes, I fermented crumbles and pellets and dog food! Lol

I had to see... it was both disgusting and fantastic fun.

WHAT!?!?
Did your dogs like it?
I have not heard of this one before.
Do you have picture?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

WHAT!?!?
Did your dogs like it?
I have not heard of this one before.
Do you have picture?

Oh gosh... I just edited my last post to say NOT suggested!

It was terrible... like vomit at times... but always at least like wet dog food. One of my dogs was all about it, one was mediocre. The 3rd tried and tried again several bites and said mehh not really.

I fed it out and didn't try again... my family says I'm really pushing it with meal worms and Darkling beetles mating in the dining room. And 3 incubators in the living room, and sprouting everywhere, and ...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Just asking for clarification, you fermented crumbles?

If you ask because you are currently straining... just mix thicker.

 

[Kiki]

Oh gosh... I just edited my last post to say NOT suggested!

It was terrible... like vomit at times... but always at least like wet dog food. One of my dogs was all about it, one was mediocre. The 3rd tried and tried again several bites and said mehh not really.

I fed it out and didn't try again... my family says I'm really pushing it with meal worms and Darkling beetles mating in the dining room. And 3 incubators in the living room, and sprouting everywhere, and ...

I'm all for fermenting but dog food...might be over the top.
LOL