Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[jajeanpierre]

How ironic. Residing in the United Arab Emirates or anywhere in that area, maybe that guy should be more worried about changing the practice of circumcising little girls. It is performed without anesthetic, it is cruel and it should be banned by law!

Wow, that was a rather uninformed comment. Genital mutilation is outlawed in the UAE. It is not something that is done amongst the Gulf Arabs. It is more an African practice. Now, that aside, what has that got to do with his contention that it is a cruel practice? The Dr. Samour holds accreditation in Europe among other countries. He works in the Middle East because of his love for falcons.

 

[jajeanpierre]

How ironic. Residing in the United Arab Emirates or anywhere in that area, maybe that guy should be more worried about changing the practice of circumcising little girls. It is performed without anesthetic, it is cruel and it should be banned by law!

I know you will never find this practice acceptable, and that is okay. There are many points that are subjective as to " morality" and how much pain or discomfort or how cruel this procedure is or is not. However one thing that this "expert" is dead wrong about and is fact not subjective in any way is the extremely low mortality rate. The expert caponizers have less then .1% mortality rate and those of us learning that are less then expert lose very few after the first couple of birds. I have caponized over 30 and not lost any, my mentor over 200 and lost only 3, the handful of others I know have collectively caponized several hundred and all together lost about 10.

Kassaundra, putting quotes around the word expert is inappropriate and demeaning. This "expert" is an expert. He isn't just a research vet and a teaching vet, but works in the Middle East. Young vets from all over the world line up to try to get into his internship program. He's treats the falcons of Bedouin falconers, I might add with no quotation marks around the word falconer--and works to educate them to stop some of their incredibly barbaric husbandry practice. He's not just a vet residing in an ivory tower of academia.

One of his true loves is chickens.

Your thirty birds is not a big sample. Nor is your teacher's 200. The mortality rate of this practice isn't my objection, it is the cruelty. I doubt "discomfort" is anything near what a chicken feels. Common sense suggests otherwise. You are going into the abdominal cavity and ripping out organs and tearing ligaments. I happen to know what that feels like since I awoke during laparoscopic abdominal surgery which wasn't nearly as invasive as tearing out gonads. And don't tell me that a chicken magically doesn't sense pain. They used to think that about children and babies.

I can't change how you treat your chickens, but I can let you know that expert opinion feels it is a cruel practice that should be outlawed. You might continue this practice, but someone else might pause and think about what they are about to inflict upon their chicken.

 

[TexasLisa]

1. You'll get a lot of people who will tell you that you cannot, you must not and you are risking you and your family's life by water bath canning low acid foods.....but you can, people did it for many a long year before pressure canners were widely available and those same people are old, mountain folk who lived to tell about it. And are still doing it.

I've done it and I'll tell you why...I'm not a sheeple. My mother has water bath canned corn...many, many beautiful quarts of it...with such good results by adding just a little touch of acid with a slice of green tomato on top of the corn in the jar. Then, I met an old Mennonite lady who told me she has canned everything they've eaten in a big, black kettle out in the yard and her mother before her, all their lives(Mother was still living, BTW, at 96 and her daughter at 74 were still growing and canning their own foods each year). The pot holds 14 qt. jars at a time and they canned all manner of veggies, fruits and..yes..meats...chicken, pork, beef, mutton, bear and deer.

Well...you know me by now...I like a good experiment that goes against the general populace's idea of what "should" be the rule. I cold packed mine and boiled it for 90 min., much the same time it is pressure canned. Came out very well, less mushy than pressure canned meat, and we lived to tell about eating it. Pressure canning is a lot easier, mind you, because one is not dealing with the vast amounts of water and worrying about lowering jars into water that is hot...but it's doable. One just needs to maintain good hygiene in their canning practices and everything turns out good. Many a people have eaten many a jar of water bathed canned meat in this ol' world before all of the "more intelligent" generation showed up to follow the USDA recommendations like blind sheep. No worries!

2. Soak her foot in a warm epsom salt bath for a couple of times(5 min. once a day x2-3 days) and monitor results. Then check your protein levels in your feed. If you are powering up on proteins, time to cut back. If not, just monitor her and see if her natural immune system can fight off any kind of inflammation going on and let the epsom salts soothe the swelling.

Thanks Bee for helping me out!

My flock is on the ff. I use eggmaker pellets (20% protein) mixed with Scratch/BOSS. I mix a little bit of Oregano and Garlic in there and every once in a while I will add Red Peppers. I haven't changed their feed at all. They free range from 7 AM to Dusk. I give them 2-3 gloops of ff in the morning and IF it is all gone (there are 14 in my flock) by 4 PM, I will put another gloop in the trough.

I will start Prissy on her foot soaking tonight!

Lisa

 

[jajeanpierre]

...and treating women WORSE than a rented mule AND marrying daughters off (many times to geezers 3X or more their age) in a "business deal" AND having a haram and calling it a normal family AND using rape as a form of punishment ...AND I COULD GO ON. And to worry about some little roosters nuts wanting caponization outlawed because it's sooo cruel, please! LOL How about a "Humane Society" dedicated to women first...?

What are you people ranting on about?

Jaime is bred and born in North America. He is not Arab. He is not a citizen of the UAE or any Arab country. I believe he got one of his post graduate degrees in London, England. His veterinary degree was earned in North America. He worked at the London (England) Zoo where he was the first person to successfully artificially inseminate a bird. He is the Chairman of the Education and Residency Committee for the European College of Zoological Medicine. He is regularly invited to present research papers at various conferences around the world.

In 2006, Jaime won the T.J. Lafeber Avian Practitioner Award which is awarded for clinical excellence, innovation, contribution to the knowledge base, compassion and the promotion of the profession. He's written many texts on avian and exotic veterinary medicine. I didn't just get an opinion from my regular farm vet--I went to a world famous avian vet who is well respected by other avian vets.

http://www.lafebervet.com/t-j-lafeber-avian-practitioner-award/

You know very little about Gulf Arab society. Very, very little. What has your perceptions of a culture got to do with the opinion of a well respected avian veterinarian?

 

[beverly evans]

Fm gene (~~Fibromelanosis) hyperpigmentation or dark skin/bones/flesh is in several pure breeds of chickens and can be "put" in any cross you like through crossing w/ a Fm bird. This gene shows in many versions ranging from black almost to the point of blue skin to very slight off grey or even splotched depending on how it is inherited. I have several crosses (well had now)

 

[TexasLisa]

I found it, Lisa....quoted back on page 1053.....lol. Her is the copy and paste:

The Treatment involves getting your core body temps up for a short while in order to simulate an increase in temperature, which increases white blood cell to the source of infection/inflammation~or so the premise states~and can shorten the life of your cold/URI. Simply put, it's an old timers solution to not having antibiotics or having a viral infection that doesn't respond to such. I've tried it several times when I had the first makings of a cold and it has worked each time to curtail it...if done properly. Most folks don't follow all the steps and then say it doesn't work..my son, for one. He never does it right and so it doesn't work for him, but others who have tried it report favorable results.

Here's the routine. At the first sign of a cold..sore throat, sniffles, cough, etc...and that goes for the symptoms you are currently dealing with as well...fix yourself some hot boullion or hot tea. Run a hot bath...as hot as you can possibly stand it and still sit down in it. Drink the hot drink while you are soaking in the hot bath. This is not a bath for washing, so don't wet the head. When it's as hot as you can stand it, both inside and out, get out and dry off briskly. Slather Vick's to the chest and the soles of your feet. Yes, the soles of your feet. Put on warm socks, and a sweat suit if you have one...whatever extra warm clothes you have, put it on. Go straight to bed and cover up with the warmest blankets you possess. I usually take some cold tablets in this process so that I can sleep through the next part because it's very hard for me to sleep when I'm hot. Stay bundled like that for as long as you can stand it..the hotter the better.

The next day, drink 3 glasses of OJ...you can space that throughout the day. That day you will feel about 50% better than you did the day before..at least, that's been my experience. The day after that, you'll feel about 75% better...drink the OJ that day too. On the third day, you should be feeling almost 100% better than you were...keep drinking the OJ.

I've had this work time and again and it's not all hocus pocus...simulating a fever does much what a fever does for you, it merely activates your natural immune response. The OJ helps with that as well and I've found it works better than taking Vit. C caps...makes your skin lovely as well. The Vicks? The menthol works in some way, not sure what...but when I put it on my feet, I can taste it in my mouth, so there's a systemic effect going on there whatever it is.

Can't hurt to try it and see if it helps even a little bit. It's kept me from experiencing a cold for many years now, so I'm a believer.

I bow down to the Master! I didn't go back far enough!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

Lisa

 

[beverly evans]

You might have ovulated early too.........hard to say.....I can understand why he is your ex if he made that kind of an accusation......like you were just waiting for him to ship out so you could move a boyfriend in.......good men are hard to find.

You can say that again!

 

[Beekissed]

Here's an interesting tidbit from one of our members who has been doing FF for 2 yrs now and has reported all the wonderful things we all have already noted about the benefits of the FF...and then here's another one....

Quote:

 

[beverly evans]

Quote: Beverly,

To put multiple quotes in one post, click the "Multi" button on each quote until you've got them all, then click the "Reply" button. All the quotes should show up on the post and then you can respond to each one.

As for the reposting of "quotes within a quote" (like mine above that has both yours and TWs in it)....that is a setting you have to set.

Go up to the top of the page and click on "My Profile"

You will see, to the right of your name, two bars, one says "Edit Community Profile" and the other "Edit Account Details"

Click the "Edit Account Details"

The second item from the top with a checkbox next to it is "Remove Nested Quotes in Replies"

This should NOT have a check if you want all the quotes to be shown (like the one above that I quoted from you and also includes TWs). It should have a check if you just want the post quoted to show and not TWs original quote.

There are other settings there that you might want to take a look at while you are there.

Thanks a lot. We'll see what my changes render.

 

[Kassaundra]

@beverly evans , I am not offended by anyone finding the NN chickens "ugly" lol lol lol I personally think they are awesome looking, but I understand they are an "acquired" taste. I do not know the actual breed of Bee's "off color" chicken, but do know it had some genetic ansestory of Fm genes.