Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Peruvian]

I took a 1/2 gallon of my broiler mash (from a local farm/mill) and added water and ACV yesterday to give this a try. Unfortunately no bubbling as of this morning. Any ideas as to why it's not fermenting?

 

[Beekissed]

Bee,

How much extra time do you think using fermented feed adds to the processing age?

I finally got bubbles in my feed yesterday, the chicks love it!

I don't think fermented feeds add to the processing time at all. The last batch I had didn't have any fermented feeds except the mother vinegar once in a while and they got to appropriate finishing weights at 8 wks. I held them over to see if they would continue to grow past that~in my thinking, the older the bird, the better the taste~but they didn't and it was getting hot in mid-July so I thought I would go ahead and process them. I could have waited, as none were showing any distress but I just wanted to get it over with before it got even hotter...I hate processing when it's hot outside!

Growing them on regular feeds slows down their growth rate a little but my birds are only a week behind(according to their weights) Welp Hatchery schedule for CX raised on commercial recommendations, so it must not slow them down too much.

Galanie, from what the studies state, the reason our birds are not eating as much as usual is because they don't need to. They can now utilize the nutrients in the feed we are giving much better than they would have if it were not fermented. Ordinarily they would be eating those feeds and a lot of that nutrition would be going right through and out the other end. With the fermentation, those same nutrients are now able to be absorbed and utilized as nutrition, thus lowering their overall needs for more feed of the same. Better utilization of available nutrients means less feed dished out and less money out of our pockets! Yay for us!

I'm so glad everyone is trying this and will report the results. Even though we have the studies done in a more scientific manner, our backyards cannot be controlled experiments due to too many variables. What we can do is observe any changes, report them, make adjustments~or not~ and derive our own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence we may see. A lot of people would poo-poo our anecdotal evidence, but at least we are reaching, exploring, trying these things out instead of stating they won't work even though we had never tried them.

I see that a lot on this forum...those die-hard followers that only take the safe, supposedly proven, route to animal husbandry and then you see them complaining about their birds getting sick or asking what meds are good for what disease. Don't they see any correlation between method and results? Don't they want to change it? Or do they simply want to believe that the USDA and the FDA have a handle on how to grow animals in our back yard better than we do? No, they do not.

I'd rather go out on a limb and try something different than repeat the same old mistakes year after year expecting different results. If our chickens can benefit from the FF, then why not give it a shot? If our wallets benefit from FF, then why not? Personally, I'm laughing all the way to the bank on this one because I am able to raise chickens so cheaply and they are of exceptional health, yielding exceptionally healthy meat and eggs.

Keep those reports coming!

 

[jrsckn]

It can take a couple days especially in colder weather. I'm in MI and I started mine on Sunday and didn't get bubbles until yesterday; Wednesday.

 

[shadowmane]

Okay, now I'll explain my own setup. I have an old trash can with the flip top. The earwigs get into it (more protein), but that's no problem. I simply put the water and ACV in it, add the feed and let it brew. It is attached with bungie chords to the side of the coop. It percolates all day long in the Southern heat. The only thing I'm running into (something my wife said, but I'm not sure about) is mold. Apparently she thinks there is mold growing up the side of the trash can from where I drain the liquid out of the feed (I have a slatted spoon I use). The chickens don't seem to mind, and I've not noticed any problems with them. They still seem perpetually hungry, no matter how much I feed them. I'm still planning on implementing the bucket system Bee has, but have been too busy of late to do it (we had a wedding this weekend, and a funeral yesterday for the 9 month old baby of some dear friends).

Today being the first normal day in over a week, we're taking the boys to the park for some family time, then we'll get to work on a new roost in the coop, putting up nesting boxes, and getting the brooder ready for the Red Rangers coming on Monday. Then, I'll have to get to work on the tractor. I plan on building a cattle fence tractor, since it looks so simple to make. I'm still wondering if the Red Ranger is the same as or similar to the Freedom Ranger. I'm going to have to check into record keeping methods for broilers. I plan to grow them out to about 12 weeks or so to see what kind of sizes I get. I decided not to start with the Cornish Cross, because I have just heard too much negative about that bird. I may try them in the future, though. It'll be interesting to see how the grow with the fermented feed.

Hmmm... one more thing. I'm thinking of getting some quail later for meat. I'm wondering how this feeding method will effect them. Beekissed, have you ever had any contact with Mobyquail? Perhaps this feeding method could help him get his illusive 1lb quail.

 

[doubleatraining]

I don't think fermented feeds add to the processing time at all. The last batch I had didn't have any fermented feeds except the mother vinegar once in a while and they got to appropriate finishing weights at 8 wks. I held them over to see if they would continue to grow past that~in my thinking, the older the bird, the better the taste~but they didn't and it was getting hot in mid-July so I thought I would go ahead and process them. I could have waited, as none were showing any distress but I just wanted to get it over with before it got even hotter...I hate processing when it's hot outside!

Growing them on regular feeds slows down their growth rate a little but my birds are only a week behind(according to their weights) Welp Hatchery schedule for CX raised on commercial recommendations, so it must not slow them down too much.

Galanie, from what the studies state, the reason our birds are not eating as much as usual is because they don't need to. They can now utilize the nutrients in the feed we are giving much better than they would have if it were not fermented. Ordinarily they would be eating those feeds and a lot of that nutrition would be going right through and out the other end. With the fermentation, those same nutrients are now able to be absorbed and utilized as nutrition, thus lowering their overall needs for more feed of the same. Better utilization of available nutrients means less feed dished out and less money out of our pockets! Yay for us!

I'm so glad everyone is trying this and will report the results. Even though we have the studies done in a more scientific manner, our backyards cannot be controlled experiments due to too many variables. What we can do is observe any changes, report them, make adjustments~or not~ and derive our own conclusions from the anecdotal evidence we may see. A lot of people would poo-poo our anecdotal evidence, but at least we are reaching, exploring, trying these things out instead of stating they won't work even though we had never tried them.

I see that a lot on this forum...those die-hard followers that only take the safe, supposedly proven, route to animal husbandry and then you see them complaining about their birds getting sick or asking what meds are good for what disease. Don't they see any correlation between method and results? Don't they want to change it? Or do they simply want to believe that the USDA and the FDA have a handle on how to grow animals in our back yard better than we do? No, they do not.

I'd rather go out on a limb and try something different than repeat the same old mistakes year after year expecting different results. If our chickens can benefit from the FF, then why not give it a shot? If our wallets benefit from FF, then why not? Personally, I'm laughing all the way to the bank on this one because I am able to raise chickens so cheaply and they are of exceptional health, yielding exceptionally healthy meat and eggs.

Keep those reports coming!

I agree! I'm an avid cook and LOVE "tweaking" recipes so it makes sense that I tweak with the care of my critters. I've read the articles, I've seen how much my birds love it, I'm noticing that I'm not going back to the feed store for a LONG time...so for now I'm sold.

I have been telling a few other chicken friends about it and while I don't mix all whole grains I still use a grower as my base I told them that even WITHOUT the health benefits....there is NO waste. They don't scratch it and sling it, they don't leave any for later to get messed up....they eat it ALL. That alone is worth it to me.

I emptied my FF bucket this morning and noticed this math:
3 scoops(regular square feed scoop) go into the bucket. 2.5 are scoops of the mixed whole corn, cracked corn, layer pellet, and all stock feed, .5 scoop of whole oats.

This mix is soaked in the "old" FF water and more water is added. This will be fermented by the time I feed this evening.

This morning I was able to feed all my birds on 3 dry scoops of feed.
4 bantams(oinkers)
3 Medium hens
4 LF Roosters
6 LF Hens
2 LF Pullets
10 chicks/teenagers
12 6 week old Cornish X

If I was feeding it dry I would have given:
3/4 scoop to the Delawares(LF quad)
3/4 scoop to another LF quad
1/2 scoop to bantam quad
1/2 scoop to Medium hens
3/4 scoop to LF roo and 2 pullets
1/2 scoop to chicks
1.5-2 scoops to Cornish X

That is 6.5-7 SCOOPS for the morning feeding of dry food!!!

 

[Bossroo]

Just a word of causion when fermenting grain feeds. Do not do this in unventilated or closed rooms ... the fermentation process forms gases such as carbon diaoxide that can cause suffocation at very low concentrations. Another is nitric oxide,, when conbined with oxegen from the air, it becomes highly toxic nitrogen dioxide... when inhaled, this gas may be fatal or cause permanent lung damage even in very low concentrations ( ask any farmer with a silo). Some other gases from fermenting grains would be methane, ethanol, etc.. Add a spark and kaboom! Fermentation of grains will also produce alcohol, wich humans, birds, and animals get pretty drunk on.

 

[jrsckn]

On a side note, I'm using dollar store metal bread pans feed them. I used them a couple times and the coating came off and I'd been saving them for who knows why lol. But, somehow they're just the right weight that if they get tipped over, they right themselves and the chicks go about their business eating. So far they're working out great till I can take the truck to get some gutters for troughs.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks for the warning, though I don't think anyone here is fermenting on that scale(sileage in silos) nor in closed areas. Just buckets with the lids cracked...no build up of fumes or actual alcohol production going on.

 

[Peruvian]

...no build up of fumes or actual alcohol production going on.

Although I did find this when doing a search on the topic - http://www.ehow.com/how_5247611_make-whiskey-chicken-feed.html

 

[Beekissed]

Another word of warning...I hope everyone is using plastic containers for their fermentation, instead of metal ones. Wouldn't want the acids to corrode your metals, causing leaching into your feeds.