Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Pozees]

This may be a pointless and crazy question, but it's been running through my head all day, so I have to get rid of it by asking you all. Sorry.

If you ferment feed to increase the availability of nutrients, particularly protein, and you are trying to figure out a way to do a lot of the work all at once so you can give yourself many days of not doing it, you start thinking about stuff that might be crazy. This is the premise for my question.

Is there any point at which you can determine the maximum availability of nutrients and preserve the resultant feed by canning it to preserve it? Or will the fermentation process not be halted by the process and make exploding jars? And/or will the canning process reverse all the goodness of fermentation?

 

[Bogtown Chick]

My garbage can full of the FF smells sour, but no bubbling. Why? There is this liquid on top that looks like oil. I mix it in multiple times a day. Is there something I'm missing?
I added a lot of ACV.. Like way more than a few glugs and more like 1/5th of a bottle

aoxa: I've read a few more pages after this post to see if somebody has already made this suggestion, but didn't see it yet after 4 more pages...so forgive me if it came up later ...but I've been making sourdough starter for 15 years or so (which in essence is sort of what FF is--which I'm just now trying tonight) But one of the first suggestions for sourdough is not to use metal bowls or spoons--as it seems to inhibit growth. I'm not sure if you're garbage cans are metal or plastic that your using... or if you are now getting what you're looking for in growth, but this could be your issue for "no bubbles or reduced bubbling".

 

[Tivona]

This may be a pointless and crazy question, but it's been running through my head all day, so I have to get rid of it by asking you all. Sorry.

If you ferment feed to increase the availability of nutrients, particularly protein, and you are trying to figure out a way to do a lot of the work all at once so you can give yourself many days of not doing it, you start thinking about stuff that might be crazy. This is the premise for my question.

Is there any point at which you can determine the maximum availability of nutrients and preserve the resultant feed by canning it to preserve it? Or will the fermentation process not be halted by the process and make exploding jars? And/or will the canning process reverse all the goodness of fermentation?

As far as figuring out when the ff hits its prime probably could only be determined by lab testing. When you say can I am assuming you mean with heat and pressure. My guess is that it would destroy some of the vitamins and enzymes. Folate and Thiamine and vitamin C come to mind. It would also kill the lacto-bacteria which are a big part of the benefits of this ff. With proper safe canning, the jars would not explode but you wouldn't have the same good feed as before it was canned. Some of the benefits would still be in the canned ff but it really wouldn't be worth it as the canned would just not be as good as the raw ff. Think of the probiotic yogurts in the stores for people. The probiotics are basically beneficial bacteria and they are very sensitive to heat. Too high and they die. We are using the same types of bacteria in the ff.

 

[aoxa]

aoxa:  I've read a few more pages after this post to see if somebody has already made this suggestion, but didn't see it yet after 4 more pages...so forgive me if it came up later ...but I've been making sourdough starter for 15 years or so (which in essence is sort of what FF is--which I'm just now trying tonight)  But one of the first suggestions for sourdough is not to use metal bowls or spoons--as it seems to inhibit growth.  I'm not sure if you're garbage cans are metal or plastic that your using... or if you are now getting what you're looking for in growth, but this could be your issue for "no bubbles or reduced bubbling".

My garbage cans are plastic. And I am getting lots of bubbles now when I stir It's a beautiful thing!

Thank you anyway though The metal would be really bad.

Is stainless steel the same thing?

 

[Pozees]

As far as figuring out when the ff hits its prime probably could only be determined by lab testing. When you say can I am assuming you mean with heat and pressure. My guess is that it would destroy some of the vitamins and enzymes. Folate and Thiamine and vitamin C come to mind. It would also kill the lacto-bacteria which are a big part of the benefits of this ff. With proper safe canning, the jars would not explode but you wouldn't have the same good feed as before it was canned. Some of the benefits would still be in the canned ff but it really wouldn't be worth it as the canned would just not be as good as the raw ff. Think of the probiotic yogurts in the stores for people. The probiotics are basically beneficial bacteria and they are very sensitive to heat. Too high and they die. We are using the same types of bacteria in the ff.

Ah, of course, and as you point out above, many of the nutrients would be diminished or eliminated as well. Thank you for helping to delete this notion from my brain

 

[Celie]

I am raising CornishX broilers from Meyers special. They arrived on Oct 12th. I put them on dry 22% game bird feed to start with because that was the closest the feed store had to Broiler feed. I brooded them in a spare bathroom, where I brood Turkey poults, which has a dehumidifier and heater with an adjustable thermostat. I unfortunately got all females, so I know they will take longer to grow out. I usually only do broilers in Early spring and grow them out in a 10x10 pen set up inside the barn, until it is warm enough to let them free range during the day. At that stage, usually 4 to 6 weeks, they are integrated into the flock of juvenile heavy duel purpose chicks I hatch out a couple or three weeks before I get the broilers. That way they all eat together and nobody gets too heavy before their legs develop good! These chicks went to the barn at 2 weeks old, because we were having 80 degree daytime weather and 60's nigh time, and lots of adult birds in the barn to supply body heat. Before moving them to the barn, someone said the 22% protein crumbles, fermented with equal parts of oats, mixed grains(scratch) and cracked corn I planned to feed with a hand full of BOSS every day was too high in protein. It was suggested by a BYC member, who has done broilers on FF before, to reduce the protein crumbles in the FF from 22% to 19%, which I did. They have been in the barn for 2 weeks now Half on ff and half on wet feed and ACV in their drinking water. After 2 weeks, I see no difference in appearance or weight (size) of the 2 groups. They are all approx 1 pound each and have lost their chick fuzz but not feathering enough to cover their bare bodies, much less their huge rumps. They are messy with the wet feed, but I have good circulation in the barn and never much of an odor problem with any of the birds. I see other people's pictures of huge, well feathered broilers on BYC and am wondering what I am doing wrong? I have gone through a lot of ACV and a good fermentation. My turkeys have even learned how to open one of the buckets, to help themselves. They love it (and anything else eatable LOL).
I was thinking of eliminating the corn, using a straight 18% protein feed ( cost wise much cheaper and give them equal amounts of oats, since oats are 11.5% protein. Ferment this combination as I want meat, not fat, but these guys aren't getting large, for boilers and definitely not very meaty. What do you think? Am I due for a growth spurt at say 5 weeks, or am I feeding them wrong ratio or what? Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[chickachee]

On fermenting pumpkins: I don't have an open air shed or any other kind of shed that the pumpkins would not make a mess in, so I was wondering if it'd work as well to put the pumpkins on a skid/pallet in my (fenced) vegetable garden, cover them loosely with a tarp or some such thing and just let them (the pumpkins) fend for themselves. I put some birdhouse gourds in our garage one year and let them freeze and thaw and Ook Begook, what a mess!! It's pretty difficult to try and scrape up frozen gourd wee wee off a concrete floor (just ask me how I know!).

 

[Noncentzter]

When adding pumpkin seeds to the FF, are salted seeds ok? Will they affect the fermentation?

 

[armorfirelady]

On fermenting pumpkins: I don't have an open air shed or any other kind of shed that the pumpkins would not make a mess in, so I was wondering if it'd work as well to put the pumpkins on a skid/pallet in my (fenced) vegetable garden, cover them loosely with a tarp or some such thing and just let them (the pumpkins) fend for themselves. I put some birdhouse gourds in our garage one year and let them freeze and thaw and Ook Begook, what a mess!! It's pretty difficult to try and scrape up frozen gourd wee wee off a concrete floor (just ask me how I know!).

Thats my plan as well. They are just getting carved pumpkins for now that I break up for them to enjoy at their leisure. But the whole ones I have will go in the garden on a tarp with it folder over top of them. Bee said its messy in the garage. lol

 

[Beekissed]

On fermenting pumpkins: I don't have an open air shed or any other kind of shed that the pumpkins would not make a mess in, so I was wondering if it'd work as well to put the pumpkins on a skid/pallet in my (fenced) vegetable garden, cover them loosely with a tarp or some such thing and just let them (the pumpkins) fend for themselves. I put some birdhouse gourds in our garage one year and let them freeze and thaw and Ook Begook, what a mess!! It's pretty difficult to try and scrape up frozen gourd wee wee off a concrete floor (just ask me how I know!).

Should be just fine! You'll see if you check on them now and again just how much syrup comes out...quite a bit. Mine are out on just such a place as we speak..up on wood but under a shelter.