Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Mikedero]

Is there proof?? I am going to search the web for this info. I am also going to do 15 birds with FF and 15 with out. I will record each of their weights and feed and water intake as well as cost.

I will post my results. But it seems to me that this might just be a internet thing as not one of my books or nay of my research states anything about FF. Not trying to fight as I am a see for myself type of person on a topic that other then this website has posted about.

You gotta see my point we as a people have been keeping chickens for thousands of years, you figure by now if this way the perfect answer it would be in just about every poultry book out there

 

[Kjordanov]

 Is there proof?? I am going to search the web for this info. I am also going to do 15 birds with FF and 15 with out. I will record each of their weights and feed and water intake as well as cost.

 I will post my results. But it seems to me that this might just be a internet thing as not one of my books or nay of my research states anything about FF. Not trying to fight as I am a see for myself type of person on a topic that other then this website has posted about.

 You gotta see my point we as a people have been keeping chickens for thousands of years, you figure by now if this way the perfect answer it would be in just about every poultry book out there

I'm interested to see the results. If I had more than 6 chickens I would try half and half too.

 

[Mikedero]

.Ok so I found some proof it seems to me the best benifit for FF is this "The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary"

the feed intake and egg size and everything else is very minimal. So for me I will use the Dry food for my meaties and FF for layers.

this is just my feeling but below is proof a real study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724


An experiment with a total of 480 hens (Babcock) was carried out from 16 to 38 weeks of age to evaluate the suitability of wet fermented feed (feed water ratio, 1:1.2-1:1.4) for layers, taking aspects of nutrition and gastrointestinal health into consideration. The production performance, egg shell quality, plumage condition, litter dry matter (DM) content, as well as the composition and activity of the intestinal microbial flora were analysed. 2. Fermented feed was characterised by a high concentration of lactic acid (160-250 mmol/kg feed) and a moderate level of acetic acid (20-30 mmol/kg feed), high numbers of lactic acid bacteria (log 9-10 CFU/g feed) and a pH of approximately 4.5. Feed fermentation reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM. 3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content. 4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%). 5. There was no significant difference between groups with respect to the total egg mass production (g/d/hen, 42 and 45 for fermented feed and dry mash, respectively). Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary

 

[Kjordanov]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373724/

Interesting article. There's benefits but also a lot of negative effects to the fermented feed. After reading that I probably won't feed fermented on a regular basis! (I haven't even started). Something I will do though is start sprouts from seeds and give that as a supplement in the winter.

 

[Bleenie]

My birds eat their FF out of a rubber feedpan on the ground. when empty, it always looks like they've licked it clean and if there is ever any kicked or tracked out it's almost immediately cleaned up by the birds.


- Before starting FF(feeding crumble) I lost a hen, I cut her open to discover what caused her death.
- Fairly recently, after starting FF, I lost another hen(egg problems) and had to cut her open also.

There was a HUGE difference between the birds as far as the amount of meat and fat. The hen that had been eating FF weighed at least a full pound heavier than the other girl, had a healthy layer of fat under the skin and much more muscle.


I think feeding FF is Very beneficial for owners of backyard flocks or that are raising a batch of meaties. I can see a positive difference in the health of my birds since switching and I couldn't be happier with how much muscle weight they've gained just since starting FF. Even if it didn't save me money I would continue to do it for the health of my birds.

 

[Kjordanov]

Lol whoops guess we found the same article!! @Mikedero

 

[Mikedero]

Lol whoops guess we found the same article!! @Mikedero

that is funny yes we did.

Proof is in the pudding this is what I was looking for some real information that is not biased in any way. Just the facts I wanted before jumping into something that will add time to my day. I work 50+ hours a week and another 10-15 on the my little farm. time is not soemthing I can afford to waste. so that is why I wanted to make sure there was proof of something before doing it.

 

[countrygirl74]

Okay so I'm starting my first batch tonight and I have a few questions.

1. Does anyone have a recipe?
2. I drink a lot of loose leaf tea can I toss the leftover tea leaves in the FF?
3. How much should I feed a day?
4. Should I feed the birds more than one time a day? Right now I feed my chicks once a day and my big girls whenever their feeder is empty.
5. Can my ducklings eat the FF? Seems like it would be up their ally with it being moist.

I posted this a while back, thought I would re-post as I think it should help you...
But first, answers to questions:
1. See below
2. Don't know about the tea
3. See below
4. See below - but I usually only have to feed once a day, sometimes less than that
5. All my ducks are on the same ff as my chickens

Everybody's feed is different - some ferment their own mix of grains, some ferment crumbles or pellets, etc. I personally ferment an organic grower mash.The type of mash I get seems more "grainy" and has peas, etc. in it. I find it very easy to strain. I tried crumbles and hated it but I think most people do crumbles and it works out fine. There are many different "bucket" systems for making FF too. I only use 1 bucket because I have a small flock of 8 right now but going to be adding another 8 or so pretty soon - I think the 1 bucket will still suffice, but we'll see. I don't event really know how much food I pour in... I just keep enough food in the bucket that when I have about 2 inches of water over the feed, the bucket is about 1/2-3/4 full. I started my FF by adding about 1/4 cup unpasteurized apple cider vinegar (with the mother - had Braggs brand on hand) and 1/4 cup plain Kefir. Some people do one or the other or nothing at all and just allow the fermentation to happen on it's own. It needs air, so you don't put the lid on or seal the bucket. Some people cover with a towel... I just lay the lid on the bucket to where it's slightly off. In colder temperatures, the ferment takes a little longer. Mine wasn't actively doing anything for a couple days until I put it closer to a heater vent (our house is fairly cold in the winter) and then it started right up. You should see it kind of bubbling. You also need to stir it a couple times a day. Garlic and/or oregano, pumpkin seeds, etc. can also be added for health and natural preventative for worms. I usually just give mine whole pumpkins so I personally haven't added much to my feed. When it's time to feed, I have a really big strainer scoop. It picks up the feed and lets the water drain out and I just scoop it into their feeder dishes. You will have to experiment on how much to feed - if they eat it all right away, provide them more - if they leave some in the dish, you know you don't have to feed quite as much. After feeding, just add some more feed to your bucket and stir up! Just add water as needed - you should never have to add anymore "starter" (vinegar, etc.) I used to feed twice a day while I was figuring everything out. At first they ate a lot - they loved it!!! But now they have slowed down considerably and I usually put feed in their dishes in the morning and they have plenty for the whole day. Some days when I check at night it's gone, but most of the time, there is a small amount left. I used to use closer to 100lbs of feed in one month - last month I used 50lbs!! Like I said, they might eat a lot at first but they should eventually even out and start absorbing all the nutrients so that they don't need to eat as much. All my chickens are very healthy - haven't had any issues. I have all my new chicks on it and they are all doing great. Went from watery, runny, stinky poos after getting them from the feed store, to more solid, less stinky poos within a few days.

Thought I would add this too.

 

[Kilsharion]

Quote:
FF actually reduces my time spent every morning; but, that's because if it's not FF, it's a wet mash...that I have to mix every morning. With FF, it's scoop, add back feed and water, distribute FF to birds, call it done. Takes me from about 45 min in the morning (wet mash) to about 15 minutes in the morning (FF). Considering my work schedule, this is a benefit for me. The results I've seen in my birds has been beneficial, as well. I don't have the time to sit down and draw up a scientific paper and publish it....nor do I have the inclination. The real life results suit me fine. The fact that I have completely eliminated the need for dry food in their run (thus no longer having to worry about spoilage when we get our rare rains), the healthier looking/behaving birds, the easier clean up and the reduction in time required to provide their feed have all been pluses in my book. So far, I've not found a negative.


3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content.

There, certainly, has been no loss in interest in the FF from my birds - makes me wonder what they were doing that the birds lost interest? Mine jump up onto my hands before I even get the food bowls down; and, when I go to pick them up - just like the other person said - they look licked clean. I'm still trying to figure out how animals with beaks can get a bowl so empty...

4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%).

There is certainly weight gain involved... I couldn't tell you the specifics of why - just the fact that there certainly was a difference in weight by ~1 pound. That would be significantly more than 80g...

8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.

I am unwilling to pay $44 to view the entire text, so I cannot see the "practical problems" to which they refer. However, many have switched their full grown birds to FF and not required an "early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period".

I'm very curious as to what they were using for their FF. How they fermented. And, so on. I just - well...I have other things that I need to spend that $44 on at the moment.

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
for me it's feed cost

for example two weeks ago I spent 205.57 on chicken feed
this week after fermenting feed to feed those same birds for the same amount of time it cost me 158.47 in chicken feed (feed had not changed in price)

that's a savings of 47.10 a week by feeding fermented feed or roughly a savings of 188.40 every four weeks

I can live with that