Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[7acres]

I would attend if something like that was offered. I joined this site because it was the closest I could get to learning from people who actually know better ways. Before I got into chickens I read a lot of books and mags about raising them, I think they are mostly fillers meant to help you "start". They tell you nothing on how to better your flocks health and living environment naturally. Everything seems to be meds, store bought feed, and space requirements. This helped at first, but I wanted something better and it led me here.

Thank you Bee for being on here, it seems that every time I look for an answer it is you either answering someone else or or me directly. I have learned a lot from your posts.

You folks in WV are missing out. If there are just a few folks that are in a reasonable distance to Bee, they should talk to the colleges or other groups that might sponsor something like this. It usually just takes a few to sign up for space to be allocated. If there is a WV thread, then maybe the idea can be thrown about. To say nothing of the information that will be gained by being with likeminded people. Garden clubs? Why not chicken clubs?

 

[Beekissed]

You are so kind! I am glad that someone really wants to go a little deeper into chicken husbandry than what the books say to do. It's really hard to get past that standard advice given because so many people read the books and accept them as chicken gospel,so anyone saying something different are often met with skepticism and scorn. The only reason I have strayed so far from that familiar, beaten path is because I never was exposed to that sort of learning but received information from my grandmother, my mother and old farmers of the same ilk~then I studied and read information from those actually applying good methods that you won't find in books and just did my own hand's on study in the backyard.

I was very blessed in that regard and when I first came here I was in for a culture shock ! I have learned many things here that I didn't know that actually helped my chicken husbandry methods and so I come here to give back that same help. But, I also read things here that I knew were just patently false and most of it seemed to be coming from these books written by urban flock owners or those who subscribed to the USDA recommended husbandry methods, which I've never had much belief in. So, I try to post threads that work around those standard USDA methods that actually improve flock health and performance and it seems that some folks are benefiting from that and it makes me feel good that what my granny and other OTs did and passed down won't be lost when this generation passes.

BTW, my granny would have LOVED using FF! That was something she had never done for chickens, though maybe did for her pigs.

 

[Beekissed]

You folks in WV are missing out. If there are just a few folks that are in a reasonable distance to Bee, they should talk to the colleges or other groups that might sponsor something like this. It usually just takes a few to sign up for space to be allocated. If there is a WV thread, then maybe the idea can be thrown about. To say nothing of the information that will be gained by being with likeminded people. Garden clubs? Why not chicken clubs?

I don't know that WV is that progressive and proactive about chickens as most other states. There aren't even many good breeders here and there are pitiful resources about poultry available unless it is commercially grown.

 

[RoseMarie1]

No, I'm saying that no matter what I fed it would not be on a free choice, continuous basis like people do with large, bulk feeders. Even if they could not free range, I would not do this. For one, leaving a continuous offering of grains out in the open attracts rodents, bugs and wild birds to the grains and results in feed waste and disease vectors in their living area.

It also presents them with a steady food source from which they graze continually but receive no real exercise, so it's essentially feeding up a bunch of couch potatoes and soon you will have the results of that in their health and in their laying life~just like in us humans. Rich, continuous diet and no exercise, nothing to do and nowhere to go...what kind of life is that, really? Leads to stress, feather picking, poor laying, poor health, poor socializing.

Free range provides an ongoing banquet...but the catch is they have to move continuously to feed from it. They are gaining exercise and also eating the ideal diet for their specie, so health is at a premium.

I would not keep chickens if I could not free range or keep them in a very large paddock/run for this very needed exercise and freedom of movement. Within that paddock or VERY large run I would provide deep litter opportunities so that they were not living on soils with high fecal contaminate and the feces were being composted on a continuous basis for the betterment of the soils, their health and for additional protein/foraging source as the litter encourages bug and worm life.

Within that paddock I would carefully cultivate and preserve the grasses. If in a large run, I would build growing frames in which to grow greens that chickens actually eat, guarded by wire so that the greens could not be destroyed. I'd also add compost from the run to these beds of greens and grow cold hardy greens such as kale, spinach and winter wheat. I would provide different levels of being, with logs, stumps, roosts and small brush piles, sheltered dusting spots and all manner of things I feel necessary for healthy chicken life and socialization. In other words they would have habitat suiting their species.

For grain feeding in a confined situation, I would provide one feeding that would be enough for two full meals...two full crops...for each bird. That would have to be guestimated but you'd soon find out what keeps them in good condition. Then I would provide grazing opportunities with the use of grass frames and deep litter in the run.

What mystifies me is the fact that people feel that birds confined to a small area need continuous food to keep them healthy, when it's actually less of a need for birds that never do much but walk around in a confined area all day. They are burning less calories and as such, need less food.

I didn't think about it until now but that is basically what I am doing Bee. They run out of food around 11 a.m from the night befores feeding and I feed them again when their pan is empty. UGHHHH I THOUGHT I was doing right but I'm not since I sure don't want to draw critters and diseases! They do free range and get exercise but I have to keep the gates locked to keep them out of the food when they're doing so or they want to stay in their pen and eat. You've probably said this before I know a herd of times but how do you know when you have fed them enough. I have 35 chicks now. Do you feed them enough to last 30 minutes and then no more? Mine do lay some but not a whole lot but some of these BA's do want to be lazy and hang around their pen but like I said the door is locked to keep them out.
ALSO do you let yours out to free range when it's raining? I was a little concerned they'd get sick if they got wet because mine love free ranging so much they will stay out in it when it is sprinkling. Would like to know what you do about them being outside if it's raining and then I'll feel better about it.

 

[RedRidge]

Might help to know what some definitions of "large paddock" are. Guess I'm a little confused and and finally figuring out that a large paddock is maybe? An area a little larger than the coop? I just can't get a handle on the necessity for deep bedding in such circumstances?

 

[RoseMarie1]

I understand now Bee. thanks. You have given me more information than I asked for and ideas that will help set up a larger run. Some good stuff. One of the marks of a good teacher is that they not only answer the question, but expand the students mind with relative information. You do that in your responses. I was just thinking how great it would be if local backyard poultry people had a resource in given geographical areas. Like junior colleges that would offer community service classes by learned people like you to instruct in things that pertain to raising chickens by those of us that are novices. The problem probably would be that we are so scattered and loosely banded that it would be hard to get enough to come together for an occasional class. Thankful anyway for this type of forum.

I TOTALLY agree with you about Bee. She has helped me learn as well and is such an awesome teacher. I am SO THANKFUL for her in my life right now since I am nearly brand new to raising chickens. She sure is making this much easier for me without all the errors I would be making without her help. EVEN with her help I still manage to make a bunch on my own in just NOT knowing. She's just so precious for teaching us the right things and ways to do this stuff!

 

[RoseMarie1]

Might help to know what some definitions of "large paddock" are. Guess I'm a little confused and and finally figuring out that a large paddock is maybe? An area a little larger than the coop? I just can't get a handle on the necessity for deep bedding in such circumstances?

I think I can answer this one......since Bee has helped me learn so much......your chickens have food they can work for and get in the deep bedding and they don't have to constantly be walking on their own poop. They LOVE to root around in this stuff and find bugs. Once it gets going it will get the GOOD bugs in there if done right, and they will eat lice, mites etc. so you don't get investations sp? of these critters.You can't add things like food grade DE or sevin dust to these areas or you will kill the good bugs. You want an ecosystem going that will draw good bugs to your bedding and they will have good foods to look for like I said. I had sand in my roosting area and I was spending like 3 hours out there cleaning and straining out the sand to get the the poop out. Had sweat pouring down me in this humid weather we have here in the south. Now all I have to do is turn the deep litter over every now and then to turn the poop into the deep litter under their roosting area. Don't take me 5 minutes at tops to do this. SO MUCH easier than spending all those hours out there in that pen pouring with sweat and gives me back my time.
On the paddock I'm not really sure so maybe she can explain that as well as add to what I said to.

 

[RoseMarie1]

I would so love to participate in something like that because it really has value for those who are earnest about learning it. I thank you for even wanting to learn, as it is a rare thing in animal husbandry nowadays, that people actually want to learn for themselves a better way than the books describe. My goal is that no one need ever have to treat illness in their flocks because they rarely, if ever, have any. That kind of flock keeping is immensely gratifying and is a great investment of the money spent on chickens.

plus you're not ingesting this mess of medicines in your chickens that folks are giving theirs due to illnesses.

 

[Beekissed]

I didn't think about it until now but that is basically what I am doing Bee. They run out of food around 11 a.m from the night befores feeding and I feed them again when their pan is empty. UGHHHH I THOUGHT I was doing right but I'm not since I sure don't want to draw critters and diseases! They do free range and get exercise but I have to keep the gates locked to keep them out of the food when they're doing so or they want to stay in their pen and eat. You've probably said this before I know a herd of times but how do you know when you have fed them enough. I have 35 chicks now. Do you feed them enough to last 30 minutes and then no more? Mine do lay some but not a whole lot but some of these BA's do want to be lazy and hang around their pen but like I said the door is locked to keep them out.
ALSO do you let yours out to free range when it's raining? I was a little concerned they'd get sick if they got wet because mine love free ranging so much they will stay out in it when it is sprinkling. Would like to know what you do about them being outside if it's raining and then I'll feel better about it.

Mine free range in all weathers, even in the rain. Actually, if it's going to rain all day they will forage out in it, if it's only going to be a few showers, they take shelter. Their feathers should protect the rain from ever really reaching their skin, although some birds in molt may be a little less waterproof. They apply oil to their feathers from an oil gland at the base of their tail for this very reason..weatherproofing.

When I feed in the morning, during the winter months, all the feed is usually gone by around late afternoon around 2-3 pm. They still free range in the winter time and forage on the greens, even in the snow. When I fed dry feeds, there would still be just a skiff of feed in the trough the next morning...just some powder and a few grains. Now that I feed FF, there is never really much left over at the end of the day...they practically lick it clean.

I have found my birds just naturally eat less in the winter months as they don't move around nearly as much as they do when forage is good. I also cut the rations with whole grains in the winter to lower the proteins but add a little fats and fiber. So they actually consume even less calories in the winter, though almost the same amount of food...when everyone else is adding proteins to "keep them warm", I'm cutting them to keep them healthier and to save me money.

Chickens are opportunistic eaters, so if the easiest opportunity is in the trough, they will hang close to the coop for constant snacking, but if it isn't, they will range out and forage for foods elsewhere. My birds move out over about 2 acres of land when they forage, the CX birds went all over 3 acres.

I use a standard feed scoop like one you would find in pet stores and such, and I fed a flock of 30 chickens and whatever chicks were present around 4-5 scoops of dry feed in the winter months. In the warm months, it was 3-4 scoops. I have half that number now and I feed 2 level scoops of FF each evening and no more..even that is probably too much as they aren't as slim as they need to be. In the winter that may go up to three level scoops.

From what I can tell, the scoop I use is a 2 cup scoop...so my birds get 4 cups of FF each day for 14 birds and 6 cups of feed in the winter months. Now, the levelness of the scoop measure can go up or down as I am constantly tweaking just a bit, so that is not absolute and it varies a little with the seasons and the general condition of the birds. Sometimes I'll use heaping scoops and sometimes level scoops to regulate the amounts, when they are showing too much weight.

It's something you have to play with as you get to know your flock and what is "good condition" for them, but not too good of condition, if you know what I mean. The birds should always be hungry enough to clean their plate for the day...if not, then tweak it down until they get enough but are not leaving left overs.

 

[RoseMarie1]

I would attend if something like that was offered. I joined this site because it was the closest I could get to learning from people who actually know better ways. Before I got into chickens I read a lot of books and mags about raising them, I think they are mostly fillers meant to help you "start". They tell you nothing on how to better your flocks health and living environment naturally. Everything seems to be meds, store bought feed, and space requirements. This helped at first, but I wanted something better and it led me here.

Thank you Bee for being on here, it seems that every time I look for an answer it is you either answering someone else or or me directly. I have learned a lot from your posts.

I'm soooo glad you are sharing with Bee how good she is in being a teacher to us and letting her know just how she is helping you. We all NEED encouragement to keep on keeping on and it's just so nice when you get it.

THANK YOU! So many people tear down and not build up and I sure appreciate the ones that build up and don't go around knocking peoples building blocks down! That was in a book I read many years back called Silver Boxes and I believe it's written by Florence Littauer. Such an awesome book!
Anyway yeah I think these books that are out is just helping people sell their meds mostly. That and making money from their books..... I like learning from someone that has been there and done that and not just teaching something they haven't really done themselves. And she's got the proof to prove she is doing something right with her chickens. Chickens that are laying eggs at 6-8 years old. yep I'll listen.