Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Windy Bay Farm]

LOLOL. I'm sorry I just HAD to laugh at this. I have NEVER seen seed garlic at the grocery! Local markets yes but never Giant Eagle or something. And I wouldn't buy that anyhow. It tends to be MORE expensive than the whole cloves which make fine seed garlic too....

No, I have dozens of wild garlic plants in my back yard. They're a prolific local weed and all summer long I'm harvesting scapes, and then cloves from the ground, and then seed garlic from the flowers. :3 I can get hundreds of tiny free seed garlic cloves from my back yard. I just throw 6 or so of these tiny seed garlics in the FF when I go to ferment it. I am fermenting maybe 6-8C at a time right now. So maybe 1 per cup. Keep in mind, these are TINY cloves and also a little stronger than domestic garlic. Maybe 1/4 of a "regular" garlic clove. 1/8th for some of the REALLY big ones.

If I were using regular garlic I'd probably just crush and chop one big clove into about 8C dry matter and ferment it.

Next spring, go to the grocery and see if you can find some really cheap garlic that's trying to sprout, then just plant it. Don't touch it. Let it go to seed and spread. The next year it will have claimed the whole bed you put it in, even if there are tons of weeds. My wild garlic beats out my English Ivy even! You'll have garlic for life. XD

I'll be starting to add whole cloves to the FF too this week. I want to keep my chooks medicine-free as long as possible.

CONVENIENTLY YOU GUYS;

I read a study that showed that the addition of oregano and cloves to chicken feed can cause your meat birds to convert feed more efficiently and ultimately reduce the cost of feed. Some university did this study. Kind of nice, huh?

Thank you for the info ! Very informative and much appreciated ! Thanks again

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Heh, NP, I'm nowhere near an expert... This is just what I do with my meat birds based on what I read other people doing with their livestock. A lady I know of gives all her animals garlic (even the dogs) a few times a year as a natural worm prevention. Just whole garlic plants for everyone. :3

 

[Beekissed]

I just cleaned the coop. I do sand in the coop because it is raised with a wood floor and it is very humid here. I did find one poop with worm evidence in it. Should I put some soap in there water? Will dawn dish soap work?

That's up to you....if your flock is fine acting, performing well and healthy, you can choose to leave it alone or stage an intervention. The soap can work but go easy...a dab will do ya and anymore than a drop or two and the birds won't drink the water much.

I don't know how you keep your birds so I'm a little timid in making recommendations....all natural solutions won't sustain a flock unless other natural husbandry practices are in place, so I hesitate to recommend solutions of that type to people who may not cull naturally poor birds, can't provide healthy soils underfoot, and won't take other actions to insure they have a naturally healthy flock. Not saying you fit that description, as I do not know, but just a caution I try to take nowadays when I remember.

I'll tell you why this is so important...because I see many posts on this forum and others about other specie of livestock where people are keeping all their animals~no matter what~ and won't cull for those with strong immune systems and natural vigor and health, but still want herbs and other home remedies to right the wrongs in their animal's health and it rarely, if ever, works. Then they get disillusioned with an all natural approach and condemn it as "not worth it" or claim that it didn't work with their animals and so they discourage others from even trying it.

It works beautifully if animal husbandry is approached in a holistic manner and all areas of the habitat, feed and husbandry are also considered and geared towards natural health and living.

 

[skitzkle]

That's up to you....if your flock is fine acting, performing well and healthy, you can choose to leave it alone or stage an intervention. The soap can work but go easy...a dab will do ya and anymore than a drop or two and the birds won't drink the water much.

I don't know how you keep your birds so I'm a little timid in making recommendations....all natural solutions won't sustain a flock unless other natural husbandry practices are in place, so I hesitate to recommend solutions of that type to people who may not cull naturally poor birds, can't provide healthy soils underfoot, and won't take other actions to insure they have a naturally healthy flock. Not saying you fit that description, as I do not know, but just a caution I try to take nowadays when I remember.

I'll tell you why this is so important...because I see many posts on this forum and others about other specie of livestock where people are keeping all their animals~no matter what~ and won't cull for those with strong immune systems and natural vigor and health, but still want herbs and other home remedies to right the wrongs in their animal's health and it rarely, if ever, works. Then they get disillusioned with an all natural approach and condemn it as "not worth it" or claim that it didn't work with their animals and so they discourage others from even trying it.

It works beautifully if animal husbandry is approached in a holistic manner and all areas of the habitat, feed and husbandry are also considered and geared towards natural health and living.

I have read a lot of your posts on different things, and I think I understand what you are saying. I am not saying that my garlic concoction didn't work, but I am still willing to give some other things a try. I am hoping that the garlic worked great and and that is why I saw the poop with a worm. I don't really think I have a major problem, but want to prevent one. Especially if it is because of my ignorance in my chicken keeping. I have only started to do this a couple months ago. I want to learn and not cause a bird to have to be culled due to my error in keeping chickens. I would like to try everything I can to reasonably keep my birds healthy before I blame their poor breeding on the issues. If it comes to it is the bird not my keeping that is the issue it will definitely be culled. Does that make sense. You should see my rooster since the garlic treatment! His feathers literally glisten in the sun! Out of curiosity what breed is your favorite for a long term layer?

 

[Beekissed]

I have read a lot of your posts on different things, and I think I understand what you are saying. I am not saying that my garlic concoction didn't work, but I am still willing to give some other things a try. I am hoping that the garlic worked great and and that is why I saw the poop with a worm. I don't really think I have a major problem, but want to prevent one. Especially if it is because of my ignorance in my chicken keeping. I have only started to do this a couple months ago. I want to learn and not cause a bird to have to be culled due to my error in keeping chickens. I would like to try everything I can to reasonably keep my birds healthy before I blame their poor breeding on the issues. If it comes to it is the bird not my keeping that is the issue it will definitely be culled. Does that make sense. You should see my rooster since the garlic treatment! His feathers literally glisten in the sun! Out of curiosity what breed is your favorite for a long term layer?

Long term? Well...I have a couple favorites because I also like to eat my retired layers so I lean towards dual purpose layers that still lay at an excellent rate. My fave is the White Rock for laying and meat. There really are no down sides to that breed...none at all.

For laying long term, I really like Black Australorps and New Hampshires. Both are excellent laying breeds but don't seem to have laying issues like the hatchery RIRs run into after a year or so, though if you can get your hands on any heritage breeder line stock of RIRs, they are a great investment.

I love it that you are seeing the results of the garlic so quickly so I'd just let that sink in a bit and in a couple of weeks you might try it again to get any stragglers that may have hatched. Other than that, I don't recommend ongoing dewormers as you can grow worms that build a resistance to just about anything you use if you give it long enough. The last thing you need are worms that are hardier than your livestock.

 

[foreverlearning]

That's up to you....if your flock is fine acting, performing well and healthy, you can choose to leave it alone or stage an intervention. The soap can work but go easy...a dab will do ya and anymore than a drop or two and the birds won't drink the water much.

I don't know how you keep your birds so I'm a little timid in making recommendations....all natural solutions won't sustain a flock unless other natural husbandry practices are in place, so I hesitate to recommend solutions of that type to people who may not cull naturally poor birds, can't provide healthy soils underfoot, and won't take other actions to insure they have a naturally healthy flock. Not saying you fit that description, as I do not know, but just a caution I try to take nowadays when I remember.

I'll tell you why this is so important...because I see many posts on this forum and others about other specie of livestock where people are keeping all their animals~no matter what~ and won't cull for those with strong immune systems and natural vigor and health, but still want herbs and other home remedies to right the wrongs in their animal's health and it rarely, if ever, works. Then they get disillusioned with an all natural approach and condemn it as "not worth it" or claim that it didn't work with their animals and so they discourage others from even trying it.

It works beautifully if animal husbandry is approached in a holistic manner and all areas of the habitat, feed and husbandry are also considered and geared towards natural health and living.

Yup. Same concept in humans. Natural works well if you take care of the body, but introducing meds after meds to take care of a problem and that causes you to need more meds for the problems caused by the first meds is just a wasted cycle.

 

[DaveMorey]

I apologize right now for sounding ignorant I am intrigued about the fermented feed process and I think I have the basics down, except for a couple of things. I am not sure about the UP/ACV? ACV= Apple Cider Vinegar I assume, but UP? Do I need both or can I use the cider vinegar? And how much Mothers do you need to mix to make it right? I apologize if this was covered in the posts. I read numerous pages but didn't have time to go through 700+ pages of forum posts. Thank you for the insights in all that I have read.

 

[TexasLisa]

I apologize right now for sounding ignorant

I am intrigued about the fermented feed process and I think I have the basics down, except for a couple of things. I am not sure about the UP/ACV? ACV= Apple Cider Vinegar I assume, but UP? Do I need both or can I use the cider vinegar? And how much Mothers do you need to mix to make it right? I apologize if this was covered in the posts. I read numerous pages but didn't have time to go through 700+ pages of forum posts. Thank you for the insights in all that I have read.

Welcome aboard and don't be afraid to ask questions. That is the only way you will learn!

UP/ACV: unpastuerized apple cider vinegar. This has the 'mother' in it. Pastuerized ACV in the stores will not have the 'mother'. The mother is the brown blob at the bottom of the bottle. It is part of the normal production process of making the ACV. Just shake the bottle before using it in your ff.

Lisa

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well I weighed my birds and did some calculations.

Based on the feed conversion ratio of 2-2.5lbs of feed per lb of meat for the average broiler I am way ahead. I have a flock of 13 male birds (a fourteenth chick was with us for 4 days, not sure what happened but now we have 13.) The first five days were dry feed and then FF free choice until two weeks when I started rationing it.

There's an upside and a downside to this. The upside is by this chart;

http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/a/aa/500x1000px-LL-aadf500f_rock-growth.jpeg

This charts says 13 birds should have eaten 58lbs of feed. Mine have only eaten 47ish. (Close to the bottom of the first bag.)

The downside is they are only 2lbs. Which is much smaller than I expected at this point.

The other upside is that means my birds have eaten 3.6lbs of feed to produce a 2lb body. Which is a feed conversion ratio of 1.8. Not too shabby!

The other downside is by this chart I should have a FCR of 1.75... But I'm not even sure that's realistic since most studies show 2-2.5lb FCRs.

I don't mind growing them out longer than the "typical" 8 weeks as long as I process before they crow their heads off (suburb), I will grow them until I run out of feed or I determine they are too big (9lbs is too big) or they are crowing significantly and then I will process. But I don't want to miss their peak growth ratio, and I do wonder if feeding rationed FF is causing them to eat and subsequentially gain much less. Should I just try feeding more FF? I currently feed 3X's a day what they can clean up in about 5-8 minutes. They still won't eat grass or greens on the ground.

Thoughts?

 

[RoseMarie1]

Just a damp rag and a gentle swipe on the smudges only. Then train your birds to the nests and keep a deep litter in the coop and run so that they aren't tracking mud from their feet into the nests. That eliminates the problem before it starts and you'll still occasionally get a smudged egg but it won't look like it's been rolled around in poop. Those that I get that are too poopy, I just feed to the dog. He loves them! But, mostly, I never get dirty eggs..the occasional smudge now and again.


Excellent solution! That's everyone's first thing when they hear of someone's flock having pale combs...give them a worm medicine! I'll tell you true, at different times in a chicken's life they are going to have more pale combs than they usually wear...this is indicative also of lower hormone levels during times of molt or during the winter slow down, etc. This does not mean they are anemic, necessarily, but not as fertile. Look at young pullets and note that their little combs and wattles are pale at first~NOT meaning they need wormed!~but redden up as they grow sexually mature and the hormones are reaching a peak. Hormones fluctuate throughout the year according to the bird's age, the season, etc.

I've never taken a poop sample of any of my animals to the vet, though if it gives someone more confidence there is nothing wrong with it, but it's not a necessary function nor is it unwise to not take samples to the vet..it's a husbandry preference and according to your goals for your flock or your husbandry methods, it will determine whether you consult a vet.

I'll tell another truism...you will never completely rid your flock of worms and the goal should not be to do so. Every animal has their parasite~even us~and unless they overgrow into infestation levels, one never really knows it. Acceptable loads is the goal and animals healthy enough to carry acceptable loads of parasites and still function normally will live longer and perform better than animals that keep getting over growths of internal parasites that need medicines all the time to help them live and get rid of the worms.

Nothing wrong in throwing a spring tonic or pumpkin seeds down their gullet once a year or so, but to put them on a schedule and check their stool for any evidence of oocysts is kind of defeating the purpose of having backyard animals, IMO, as we want to eat healthy foods...what is so healthy about sick animals that cannot live without medicinal help? Unless one is eating their small bowel after processing, it's not likely the worms they carry will ever effect us at all.

Biologists say that 90% of the herd or flock's parasites are carried by only 5% of the animals...and culling for thrift, health and performance can eliminate that 5% to a good degree. How are we going to know what animals are in the 5% if we keep chucking meds down their throats so they can live well and perform well? That's the same problem big ag has today is crutching up sick animals so they can produce, whereas in the olden days those sick animals were eliminated and that left the naturally strong and healthy animals for our foods.

sorry double post.