Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Beekissed]

LOL well yeah I guess you're right again.

cockerels and pullets......big ole cockerels and pullets. Today Bee I did something I haven't done yet and it sure did feel good to. I think I have like 11-13 of those cockerels I need to get rid of and these boogers are trying to hog all the food. Sat. hubby is taking them to sale to a guy. Anyway they peck the pullets until they'll leave the trough and go to the other feeders I have in there. So today I let the majority of the pullets in first so they could feed and then I let the cockerels in so they could feed. SOME of them got inside while I was trying to let the pullets in but it wasn't but a couple of them. I noticed for the past 2-3 days how they were doing the girls so I let the girls eat first this time.

Yep they ARE big that's for sure. The guy that bought two of my cockerels, mine was just a little over 3 months old at the time he bought them and he said his 14 pullets were 4 months old and he said my cockerels were larger than his 4 month olds. The RIR's were 4 months old yesterday and the BA's will be 4 months the 9th of next month.

Good for you! Let them gals have some time to have a real hen fest at meal times without the menfolks messing things up!

You have some really good looking birds, so I'm thinking they will outshine most people's birds out there because of the good care you have taken with them. Excellent care!!

Thanks everyone for the answers. Maybe it was just condensation. From the tracking, they were at the PO most of the day and they may have had the air conditioning blasting away, so the eggs could have gotten pretty cool. Since the moisture was still beaded and not smeared, it sounds like it happened as she opened them. But with the smell, I thought maybe it had something to do with the fermented feed. We'll know within a few days if they develop or not.

I've never shipped eggs but here's something I was thinking....do you ship them in egg cartons that have been used before? Sometimes folks give me egg cartons so that I can give them eggs and some of those egg cartons really smell musty to me. I hesitate to put my eggs in them because I feel they will absorb that moisture and musty smell/taste into the eggs.

Could there have been moisture in the cardboard of the carton that caused the condensation on the eggs when wrapped in plastic and also the musty, moldy smell?

 

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha kakou,

I'm falling behind on the blog here, but about 8 pages back, (16 hours ago, haha), someone was talking about worms and giving soap to the birds.

Wouldn't the soap kill the beneficial bacterias?

I like the garlic idea. Sometimes we buy the huge bottle of peeled garlic from Costco, and can't eat it all, so hmmmmmmm, guess who's gonna be eating garlic.

But I think I also recall a while back someone giving castor oil or something to flush out the worms. Does anyone remember something like that? If so, garlic and oil is more natural than soap.

Aloha, Puhi

 

[KYTinpusher]

I've never shipped eggs but here's something I was thinking....do you ship them in egg cartons that have been used before? Sometimes folks give me egg cartons so that I can give them eggs and some of those egg cartons really smell musty to me. I hesitate to put my eggs in them because I feel they will absorb that moisture and musty smell/taste into the eggs.

Could there have been moisture in the cardboard of the carton that caused the condensation on the eggs when wrapped in plastic and also the musty, moldy smell?

No, I wrap each egg in bubblewrap and then place it inside a plastic Easter egg for protection. The plastic egg is taped shut so no moisture would be able to get in.

I did come up with another theory other than condensation, though. I got to thinking about what would cause moisture to come out of the eggs and came up with a rapid change in pressure from high to low. I looked up her elevation. She is about 1200 ft higher than I am and we probably had high pressure the day I packaged the eggs. I think that the plastic eggs seal so well, that when she opened them there was a sudden drop in pressure around the egg forcing the pores to open and expel some liquid. It is probably the same thing that happens at altitude on a plane, but not as bad. You don't see the moisture on the eggs when it happens on the plane because it has time to dry before you get the package.

The good news about this theory, if it is true, is that the plastic eggs may be protecting the aircells from damage on the plane ride. But it would mean that I have to start including unpacking instructions with my eggs. I am thinking that if when they are received, only removed about a quarter of the tape from the plastic eggs and then let them sit for a few hours and let the pressure equalize slowly through the seam, that maybe the aircells and membranes would be damaged much less from shipping.

Does this sound way too wacky?

 

[RoseMarie1]

Aloha kakou,

I'm falling behind on the blog here, but about 8 pages back, (16 hours ago, haha), someone was talking about worms and giving soap to the birds.

Wouldn't the soap kill the beneficial bacterias?

I like the garlic idea. Sometimes we buy the huge bottle of peeled garlic from Costco, and can't eat it all, so hmmmmmmm, guess who's gonna be eating garlic.

But I think I also recall a while back someone giving castor oil or something to flush out the worms. Does anyone remember something like that? If so, garlic and oil is more natural than soap.

Aloha, Puhi

yeah I know what you mean. lol I had to catch up myself.

I think the soap was for fleas or some other critters.
castor oil, I think Bee said she gave an eye dropper to one of her chickens that the combs and wattles were pale on. I think it was one of those she got when she got some of her Gnarly Bunch back as she calls them.

She said it brightened up the comb and wattle in just a few short days if I am remembering right.
Bee will see this and correct me if I'm wrong.

But I do plan on doing this to my bunch before winter time sets in with the castor oil I think.

 

[skitzkle]

Aloha kakou,

I'm falling behind on the blog here, but about 8 pages back, (16 hours ago, haha), someone was talking about worms and giving soap to the birds.

Wouldn't the soap kill the beneficial bacterias?

I like the garlic idea. Sometimes we buy the huge bottle of peeled garlic from Costco, and can't eat it all, so hmmmmmmm, guess who's gonna be eating garlic.

But I think I also recall a while back someone giving castor oil or something to flush out the worms. Does anyone remember something like that? If so, garlic and oil is more natural than soap.

Aloha, Puhi

I did put 2 drops of dawn dish soap in my water to help with 'possible' worm problem. It was something I read on byc that bee had posted and others. I don't know if it will kill good bacteria also, but it is supposed to strip the worms of there outercovering so the birds digestive systems can kill them. I am sure Bee will chime in today to answer better than me. I also gave my girls a bunch of garlic, castor oil and pumpkin seed oil mixed with a cup of fermented feed to give them a boost in case they have an abundance of worms. I concocted it myself based on what I could find locally. None of my chickens appear to be unhealthy. I did it because I have two buff orpingtons thatare 13 weeks old and there comb/wattles sometimes are pale and sometimes very red. No one was able to tell me if this is normal. My thinking at thier age it should be more pale than red, but they are the lowest on the pecking order and I think it might be stress induced because they get chased around a lot. People had been suggesting it was worms and I wasn't really comfortable worming them. So this is what I am trying for now. Also even if the soap kills the good bacteria the fermented feed should add it back pretty quickly, I would think.

 

[tcmstalcup]

No, I wrap each egg in bubblewrap and then place it inside a plastic Easter egg for protection. The plastic egg is taped shut so no moisture would be able to get in.

I did come up with another theory other than condensation, though. I got to thinking about what would cause moisture to come out of the eggs and came up with a rapid change in pressure from high to low. I looked up her elevation. She is about 1200 ft higher than I am and we probably had high pressure the day I packaged the eggs. I think that the plastic eggs seal so well, that when she opened them there was a sudden drop in pressure around the egg forcing the pores to open and expel some liquid. It is probably the same thing that happens at altitude on a plane, but not as bad. You don't see the moisture on the eggs when it happens on the plane because it has time to dry before you get the package.

The good news about this theory, if it is true, is that the plastic eggs may be protecting the aircells from damage on the plane ride. But it would mean that I have to start including unpacking instructions with my eggs. I am thinking that if when they are received, only removed about a quarter of the tape from the plastic eggs and then let them sit for a few hours and let the pressure equalize slowly through the seam, that maybe the aircells and membranes would be damaged much less from shipping.

Does this sound way too wacky?

I don't have a big plan or helpful info just wanted to say the eggs you sent me were in pretty good shape and getting the Easter eggs was fun and protected the eggs well.

 

[Beekissed]

Aloha kakou,

I'm falling behind on the blog here, but about 8 pages back, (16 hours ago, haha), someone was talking about worms and giving soap to the birds.

Wouldn't the soap kill the beneficial bacterias?

I like the garlic idea. Sometimes we buy the huge bottle of peeled garlic from Costco, and can't eat it all, so hmmmmmmm, guess who's gonna be eating garlic.

But I think I also recall a while back someone giving castor oil or something to flush out the worms. Does anyone remember something like that? If so, garlic and oil is more natural than soap.

Aloha, Puhi

Not unless you are using an antibacterial soap!

Just kiddin'...not even then. Soap doesn't kill germs,ordinarily, but is a surfactant that can disperse the oils on your body surface and allows them to be washed off the skin...and along the way any germs that are clinging to that oil layer. That oil is your first line of defense against germs that are introduced to your skin. That's why using antibacterial soaps and alcohol hand sanitizers are not such a good thing because your skin also has it's own bacterial culture, sort of like the good microbes in scoby and the bowel, that are protecting your skin. Nor is repeated and frequent washing of your hands with any soap unless you are replacing that oil layer immediately with a simple lubricant to protect the skin until your natural oils can replenish.

Simple soap helps remove germs but cannot kill them. Antibacterial soap, on the other hand, can kill some germs...most often the very ones that are protecting you from germ transmission, because if they are there on the skin, bad germs cannot get a good foothold on and establish there on your skin. Bad germs such as staph, e.coli, etc.

The alcohol in hand sanitizers does a double whammy on your skin and none of it good if you are using them repeatedly. They also act as a surfactant on the oils, they kill germs and they dry out your hands...which is just removing all the good protection you had on your skin and allows the establishment of bad germs and allows them free reign to grow and live. Dry hands develop tiny fissures that allow germs to enter your body directly, don't pass GO.

No worries about the ingesting the soap and removing good germs in the bowel, as your bowel has a very thick layer of mucus that protects the mucosa and the bacteria living there...if it were as simple as that, no one would have to take any antifungals or antibiotics for intestinal infections...they'd just swallow some soap.

The worms don't have a thick a mucus layer, though they are somewhat embedded in our own to a certain degree. They have an oily protection...almost waxy. They are not like earthworms, with all their slime factor. Intestinal worms have a different kind of skin protection than slime.

Hope that helps!

Castor oil doesn't just flush out worms...it can actually kill them, as the chemical/oils from a castor bean are toxic to the worms. The mild laxative action of the castor bean oil on the digestive system can then flush them out. Garlic isn't toxic to the worms, though it is repugnant to them and they don't prefer to ingest the sulfur content in the garlic. It also has the ability to halt their reproductive cycle in some ways, so their eggs are not viable.

I did put 2 drops of dawn dish soap in my water to help with 'possible' worm problem. It was something I read on byc that bee had posted and others. I don't know if it will kill good bacteria also, but it is supposed to strip the worms of there outercovering so the birds digestive systems can kill them. I am sure Bee will chime in today to answer better than me. I also gave my girls a bunch of garlic, castor oil and pumpkin seed oil mixed with a cup of fermented feed to give them a boost in case they have an abundance of worms. I concocted it myself based on what I could find locally. None of my chickens appear to be unhealthy. I did it because I have two buff orpingtons thatare 13 weeks old and there comb/wattles sometimes are pale and sometimes very red. No one was able to tell me if this is normal. My thinking at thier age it should be more pale than red, but they are the lowest on the pecking order and I think it might be stress induced because they get chased around a lot. People had been suggesting it was worms and I wasn't really comfortable worming them. So this is what I am trying for now. Also even if the soap kills the good bacteria the fermented feed should add it back pretty quickly, I would think.

It can also be the time of year, but for your BOs it's most likely their age. Combs and wattles of hens don't start to show good, red color until they start to reach the age of maturity, so it's natural and normal for young pullets to have more pale combs.

Hormones have a lot to do with comb color and you may notice birds in full molt also will have some color leave their combs and the combs can even look a little drier. If this is happening during molt and molt recovery, I wouldn't worry about the chicken. If it's happening during a broody episode, this is also natural...change of hormones from production mode to mothering mode. If it's happening during peak laying times and hormones should be at a production high in a sexually active hen or cockbird, then you can wonder why the combs are a little pale.

 

[tcmstalcup]

I am a little nutty and get crazy ideas. this morning for whatever reason, I decided to taste the fermented grain. WHOOWHEE. It made my eyes bug out and my toes curl and was absolutely terrible!!!!! My birds are crazy for the stuff but I can't recommend it for people! LOL

 

[TexasLisa]

I am a little nutty and get crazy ideas. this morning for whatever reason, I decided to taste the fermented grain. WHOOWHEE. It made my eyes bug out and my toes curl and was absolutely terrible!!!!! My birds are crazy for the stuff but I can't recommend it for people! LOL

*************

Bee, everywhere you look everything is antibacterial. I agree with your assessment but it sure is hard to find things that aren't antibacterial. Very frustrating to buy stuff without it.

Lisa

 

[Demosthine]

Not unless you are using an antibacterial soap!

Just kiddin'...not even then. Soap doesn't kill germs,ordinarily, but is a surfactant that can disperse the oils on your body surface and allows them to be washed off the skin...and along the way any germs that are clinging to that oil layer. That oil is your first line of defense against germs that are introduced to your skin. That's why using antibacterial soaps and alcohol hand sanitizers are not such a good thing because your skin also has it's own bacterial culture, sort of like the good microbes in scoby and the bowel, that are protecting your skin. Nor is repeated and frequent washing of your hands with any soap unless you are replacing that oil layer immediately with a simple lubricant to protect the skin until your natural oils can replenish.

Simple soap helps remove germs but cannot kill them. Antibacterial soap, on the other hand, can kill some germs...most often the very ones that are protecting you from germ transmission, because if they are there on the skin, bad germs cannot get a good foothold on and establish there on your skin. Bad germs such as staph, e.coli, etc.

The alcohol in hand sanitizers does a double whammy on your skin and none of it good if you are using them repeatedly. They also act as a surfactant on the oils, they kill germs and they dry out your hands...which is just removing all the good protection you had on your skin and allows the establishment of bad germs and allows them free reign to grow and live. Dry hands develop tiny fissures that allow germs to enter your body directly, don't pass GO.

No worries about the ingesting the soap and removing good germs in the bowel, as your bowel has a very thick layer of mucus that protects the mucosa and the bacteria living there...if it were as simple as that, no one would have to take any antifungals or antibiotics for intestinal infections...they'd just swallow some soap.

The worms don't have a thick a mucus layer, though they are somewhat embedded in our own to a certain degree. They have an oily protection...almost waxy. They are not like earthworms, with all their slime factor. Intestinal worms have a different kind of skin protection than slime.

Hope that helps!

Now, if only we could get the rest of society to understand all of this knowledge and accept that "germs" are not the bad things that the big commercial cleaning and pharmaceutical companies want us to believe. Combine that with the extreme overuse of prescribed antibiotics and antiviral medication, then America's survival looks rather bleak. My girls are banned from using the hand sanitizers. Not that the church or school necessarily listens, but that was the instructions they were given. I understand they have hundreds of kids they deal with every day and can't remember each person's directions, either.

I find it completely ironic how different individual family members can be. My wife hates milk and isn't fond of honey, so she never drinks or eats it, respectively. My eldest daughter is intolerant of dairy products, so we had to substitute homemade rice milk instead. Those two are sick more often than the rest of the family combined. My two younger daughters and I drink plenty of the raw milk, plus I've been working on cutting out all the commercial foods. My Baby Girl is sixteen months now and has had nothing but the home-prepared foods and raw milk. She is by far the healthiest and best developed of the three. My other two were raised on formula and boxed meals long before my wife was with me. Their teeth are horrible, both are pigeon toed and they just aren't quite as well developed.

I just started fermenting our own pickles, so hopefully the girls take a liking to those. It's healthier than the commercial brands and should boost their immune systems. I'm looking at homemade natural recipes for soaps and hair care lately, too. It's just so hard because every website has their own recipes and nobody has given any great books to reference.