Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[armorfirelady]

I haven't noticed a decrease in feed prices here either. But the last bag of grower I bought was back in May. Hmmmm maybe I should check to see if the grain prices went down.....

 

[waltandlori]

I hope so too!

You guys will never believe what happened today....went to pick up some feed and was debating on adding more layer mash to the mix or just a scratch grain mix, as it is often cheaper than the layer and I have a good bit of layer in the can. Asked about pricing and found out that the layer mash had decreased in price by $4 on the 50 lbs...paid a little over $10 for 50 lbs of layer mash!!!

So, inside I'm doing a happy dance..sort of like this...

or..maybe this one...

...and was thinking, if the layer mash was that cheap, the scratch is going to be super cheapo. Nope. It was $15 for 50 lbs. So, I opted to get 100 lbs of layer and 25 lbs of BOSS for a grand total of $39 which is sooooooo cheap for around here. Was tempted to buy more layer ration...I've never seen feed prices drop in many a long year and certainly wasn't expecting it to happen nowadays. They never drop..only raise.

How 'bout youin's? Drop in feed prices where you live?

Feed seems high here. I found a new feed store, it's right under the grain elevators (mostly corn, soybeans, and maybe in season winter wheat) but @ 15.99 for 50# of gamebird, I think that is high. TSC is slightly lower for layer I think it is around 14. Lucky for me the layers do not eat much and the meatys are about done...

Walt

 

[Angelicisi]

You're right.

If done properly FF feed is the way to feed. Period.
Now, I do think people waaaay over think it tho. Literally with 3 items, found all over the world-that *can* be 100% free-recycled from other things or cheap (container with lid, water, feed). These 3 things can successfully make a batch of FF feed in 48 hours anywhere. Put feed in container add water to sit above feed 1 inch, put lid on container and shake it, spin it if you have nothing to stir it with (even a stick/branch/pole found...could be used...) Feed it...add feed to container as needed. Easy peasy.
Tips...? It won't go bad, IF you add feed and shake or stir regularly it gets better.
Don't use meat feed or animal protein feeds and you won't have a smell issue-BUT even if you Do use animal based feed, as long as you tend to it a tiny bit more than veggie based feeds, the smell should be ok. Got some ACV? Adds so much beneficial that you just Should add it. Only have to add it ONE time...so make your own if you don't wanna spring for a bottle.
Can't borrow? Add a yogurt cup-any kind. Or a half cup of cottage cheese... BAM similar gut cultures that are in the fridge.
Now for those more DIY, many contraptions can be made. For cheap! Or free. Some people already have tools or can barter for use of a neighbors. Some,Want specifics on ratios, measurements of feed/water and timing so they track it. Those stats won't necessarily be accurate for someone in a different place, too many variables (feed/containter/breed/temps/willingness to maintain it...)

People need to realize there is a huge learning curve and the need to tweek it to your specific schedule and environment is totally possible, just takes a few adjustments usually once one sees what's happening in the bucket

Those so against it I don't understand after seeing the change in my birds. The meaties will be the big test but dang, my girls have no issues with parasites, formed poos that don't smell, I save 30% on my feed bill and have more chickens than I started with! Also, molting has been a breeze for them since FF. Their feathers are so full and shiny. I love it. I tell everyone lol

The reason I asked was due to someone doing a presentation at school on FF and asked on another forum about pros and cons.  Two people crawled out of the woodwork and listed only cons because they tried it a few weeks and didn't like it.  Among the cons listed were equipment costs???...said not everyone has buckets, drill bits or scoops and they are apparently pretty expensive where this person lives or something.    Somehow I always imagined buckets to be a completely affordable thing in America but maybe that's just in my area?  Is there a supply and demand sort of thing out there where buckets are costly in some areas of the US....more costly than saving almost half on feed costs?  Another stopped because the smell made her gag.  Another fella said it brought critters to his farm...rats, possums and coons.  No one but me had any pros to mention!!! 

Sometimes I feel like I've touched down on a strange planet and don't know the language or see objects the same as the inhabitants of this peculiar place..it's for all the world like walking through a B grade movie and the mouths are not moving with the sound of the speech.  I feel like I'm walking in a dream scape.  I want to gather all my spare buckets and send them out to all the unfortunates who cannot afford the cost of a new one at $3.59, who cannot find an old bucket, can or jar in which to place their FF, or who cannot find an appropriate cup or soup can to use as a scoop.  I keep imagining households where there are no empty receptacles deep enough to throw some feed and water into and stir...maybe they don't even have a spoon with which to stir?  Would it be reasonable to assume, at that point, that they couldn't afford to feed chickens anyway and therefore would not even need said bucket, scoop or spoon so my efforts would be a moot point? 

I've been poor all my life and I've known people much more poor than I...hillbilly, chickens in the house(sans fancy diapers), outhouse livin', dirt bottom poor...but I've never met anyone who didn't have a bucket or a pot to pee in, even accounting for the fact that that particular expression of not having a pot to pee in is to indicate extreme poverty.  Most folks still have a receptacle of some kind in which to pee and if they can pee in it, they can mix FF in it.  But then...I AM on a strange planet and could be reading things all wrong. 

 

[kuntrygirl]

You're right.

If done properly FF feed is the way to feed. Period.
Now, I do think people waaaay over think it tho. Literally with 3 items, found all over the world-that *can* be 100% free-recycled from other things or cheap (container with lid, water, feed). These 3 things can successfully make a batch of FF feed in 48 hours anywhere. Put feed in container add water to sit above feed 1 inch, put lid on container and shake it, spin it if you have nothing to stir it with (even a stick/branch/pole found...could be used...) Feed it...add feed to container as needed. Easy peasy.
Tips...? It won't go bad, IF you add feed and shake or stir regularly it gets better.
Don't use meat feed or animal protein feeds and you won't have a smell issue-BUT even if you Do use animal based feed, as long as you tend to it a tiny bit more than veggie based feeds, the smell should be ok.
Now for those more DIY, many contraptions can be made. For cheap! Or free. Some people already have tools or can barter for use of a neighbors. Some. Want specifics on ratios, measurements of feed/water and timing so they track it. Those stats won't necessaryily be accurate for someone in a different place, too many variables (feed/containter/breed/temps/willingness to maintain it...

People need to realize there is a huge learning curve and the need to tweek it to your specific schedule and environment is totally possible, just takes a few adjustments usually once one sees what's happening in the bucket

Those so against it I don't understand after seeing the change in my birds. The meaties will be the big test but dang, my girls have no issues with parasites, formed poos that don't smell, I save 30% on my feed bill and have more chickens than I started with! Also, molting has been a breeze for them since FF. Their feathers are so full and shiny. I love it. I tell everyone lol

The reason I asked was due to someone doing a presentation at school on FF and asked on another forum about pros and cons.  Two people crawled out of the woodwork and listed only cons because they tried it a few weeks and didn't like it.  Among the cons listed were equipment costs???...said not everyone has buckets, drill bits or scoops and they are apparently pretty expensive where this person lives or something.    Somehow I always imagined buckets to be a completely affordable thing in America but maybe that's just in my area?  Is there a supply and demand sort of thing out there where buckets are costly in some areas of the US....more costly than saving almost half on feed costs?  Another stopped because the smell made her gag.  Another fella said it brought critters to his farm...rats, possums and coons.  No one but me had any pros to mention!!! 

Sometimes I feel like I've touched down on a strange planet and don't know the language or see objects the same as the inhabitants of this peculiar place..it's for all the world like walking through a B grade movie and the mouths are not moving with the sound of the speech.  I feel like I'm walking in a dream scape.  I want to gather all my spare buckets and send them out to all the unfortunates who cannot afford the cost of a new one at $3.59, who cannot find an old bucket, can or jar in which to place their FF, or who cannot find an appropriate cup or soup can to use as a scoop.  I keep imagining households where there are no empty receptacles deep enough to throw some feed and water into and stir...maybe they don't even have a spoon with which to stir?  Would it be reasonable to assume, at that point, that they couldn't afford to feed chickens anyway and therefore would not even need said bucket, scoop or spoon so my efforts would be a moot point? 

I've been poor all my life and I've known people much more poor than I...hillbilly, chickens in the house(sans fancy diapers), outhouse livin', dirt bottom poor...but I've never met anyone who didn't have a bucket or a pot to pee in, even accounting for the fact that that particular expression of not having a pot to pee in is to indicate extreme poverty.  Most folks still have a receptacle of some kind in which to pee and if they can pee in it, they can mix FF in it.  But then...I AM on a strange planet and could be reading things all wrong. 

Now you're making me want to try FF again. I could try with the 100 broilers.

 

[Beekissed]

That's when I first tried it, with 54 CX birds....haven't went back since. So incredibly saving on feed costs that I simply cannot imagine anyone who wouldn't want to save on feed costs to that degree in this day and age unless they are of the extremely rich sort who don't care about savings on anything. Money saved is money earned and can be spent on more crucial items in life than chicken feed.

I'm not a skinflint, penny pinching miser but saving almost half on feed cost is a no brainer...who wouldn't want to do that? That means the nearly $40 I spent yesterday on feed was more like $20, leaving me almost $20 left over to spend on gas for the truck or food for the family, it's almost half of the electric bill here, a bag of dog food or simply to give to someone who needs $20 more than my chickens do.

 

[Beekissed]

Here's what I listed as pros and cons for the fella on the other forum:

Cons~

Odor
Climate changes that dictate a need to keep FF at a temp that promotes good fermentation. (If done in bulk quantities, it keeps very well in weather that is at freezing and below freezing temps, though slower to metabolize)
Cannot be dispensed in continuous feeding type feeders.
Five minutes more time needed to replenish feed bucket on days when this is necessary...on other days, no more time is spent on feeding than if feeding dry feeds. Say, once a week, a person would spend 5 extra minutes.
Equipment changes that require minimal, if any, expense. Those already feeding in troughs need make little change. Buckets are often found free at local delis and restaurants.

Pros~

Increases protein usage by 12%(according to scientific studies)
Changes proteins and sugars to a form easily digested and utilized by a monogastric animal~amino acids.
Less feed waste due to more utilized at the point of digestion and also from feeding a wet feed.
Less feed consumed due to total nutrients increased in the feed~resulting in a decrease of total feed costs by nearly half.
Intestinal health and culture increases, intestinal villi lengthen thus increasing total absorption area and blood flow to the intestines.
Increased immune system function.
Increased parasite resistance.
Increased yolk size/weight.
Increased rate of lay.
Increased feather quality and growth, increased rate of molt recovery.
Increased scale, beak quality due to increased nutrient uptake(some have reported correction of cross beak after using FF).
Less undigested matter in the feces~resulting in less nitrogen in manure, less smell of the fecal matter, less attractant for flies, less ammonia production as there is less break down needed of waste material.
Less water consumption due to feeding wet feeds.
Less incidence of pasty butt in young chicks, faster weight gains, faster feathering of young chicks as well.
Thicker egg shells.
Less feed waste to rodent predation.
No changes in winter warmth issues as core temps do not depend on rates of digestion of feed~no more than it does for any other animal or human.
Increased mild flavor of eggs, removal of sulfur or "eggy" flavor.
Increased mild flavor of meat, removal of "gamey" flavor.
Increased overall health and appearance noted and reported with continuous use of FF.
Prebiotics and probiotics available in feed increase resistance to disease/illnesses such as coccidia, e.coli, salmonella, flagella, etc.

 

[Angelicisi]

I'm trying it with mine coming Friday...and the 5000 ill have in January thanks to kuntrygirl lol

I'm going to track this small batch of 25 all the way thru with cost again. My layers saved me 30%...if I can get my meaties too whoo hoo!

Now you're making me want to try FF again. I could try with the 100 broilers.

 

[Angelicisi]

I offer water 100% of the time.
The ff feed hydrates as well cutting back on water they consume. This is nice for us because its now 1 fill a day not 3 fills but even better for hot summers for the birds. They are hydrated and don't get diarrhea from too much water.

Here's what I listed as pros and cons for the fella on the other forum:

Cons~

Odor
Climate changes that dictate a need to keep FF at a temp that promotes good fermentation. (If done in bulk quantities, it keeps very well in weather that is at freezing and below freezing temps, though slower to metabolize)
Cannot be dispensed in continuous feeding type feeders.

Five minutes more time needed to replenish feed bucket on days when this is necessary...on other days, no more time is spent on feeding than if feeding dry feeds. Say, once a week, a person would spend 5 extra minutes.
Equipment changes that require minimal, if any, expense. Those already feeding in troughs need make little change. Buckets are often found free at local delis and restaurants.

Pros~


Increases protein usage by 12%(according to scientific studies)

Changes proteins and sugars to a form easily digested and utilized by a monogastric animal~amino acids.

Less feed waste due to more utilized at the point of digestion and also from feeding a wet feed.

Less feed consumed due to total nutrients increased in the feed~resulting in a decrease of total feed costs by nearly half.

Intestinal health and culture increases, intestinal villi lengthen thus increasing total absorption area and blood flow to the intestines.

Increased immune system function.

Increased parasite resistance.

Increased yolk size/weight.

Increased rate of lay.

Increased feather quality and growth, increased rate of molt recovery.

Increased scale, beak quality due to increased nutrient uptake(some have reported correction of cross beak after using FF).

Less undigested matter in the feces~resulting in less nitrogen in manure, less smell of the fecal matter, less attractant for flies, less ammonia production as there is less break down needed of waste material.

Less water consumption due to feeding wet feeds.

Less incidence of pasty butt in young chicks, faster weight gains, faster feathering of young chicks as well.

Thicker egg shells.

Less feed waste to rodent predation.

No changes in winter warmth issues as core temps do not depend on rates of digestion of feed~no more than it does for any other animal or human.

Increased mild flavor of eggs, removal of sulfur or "eggy" flavor.

Increased mild flavor of meat, removal of "gamey" flavor.

Increased overall health and appearance noted and reported with continuous use of FF.

Prebiotics and probiotics available in feed increase resistance to disease/illnesses such as coccidia, e.coli, salmonella, flagella, etc.

 

 

[kuntrygirl]

That's when I first tried it, with 54 CX birds....haven't went back since.  So incredibly saving on feed costs that I simply cannot imagine anyone who wouldn't want to save on feed costs to that degree in this day and age unless they are of the extremely rich sort who don't care about savings on anything.  Money saved is money earned and can be spent on more crucial items in life than chicken feed. 

I'm not a skinflint, penny pinching miser but saving almost half on feed cost is a no brainer...who wouldn't want to do that?  That means the nearly $40 I spent yesterday on feed was more like $20, leaving me almost $20 left over to spend on gas for the truck or food for the family, it's almost half of the electric bill here, a bag of dog food or simply to give to someone who needs $20 more than my chickens do. 

I initially tried a while back but I had 275 chickens, ducks, geese and turkeys all together and it was too much work for me for that amount of animals. I think that the 100 broilers will be more manageable this time around. And as much feed that they will consume, I will definitely need to save money. I'll have to go back and refresh my memory on the ingredients and directions.

 

[hogster160]

FF love it! What else can you feed to meaties that will allow them to fly over their fence and go play in the snow? Yes, that's what mine are doing today. They won't stay in their yard. They are 6 weeks old, feathered, growing well and they love to fly over the fence to forage anywhere and everywhere. I only have clean grass land, not a lot of trees or brush. There are half of them (I have 16) that get out daily. They love the fence line and also the line between our yard and the plowed field behind my yard. Their pen is large enough. It probably 20x20 maybe a little bigger. It's odd shaped to include the couple of small trees there. And they want the whole thing. lol. Went to get pictures and the snow coming down is huge huge clusters atm, they all ran inside lol. So I will try for pics later.

Do yourself a favor. Try the FF again. It is so worth it. Truly, a bucket, feed and water and a little acv. I use a wooden spoon to stir it. I don't cover it. It stays in the garage, and I feed from it 2x per day. I stir it when I think about it. If it is too runny, soupy, I add food. If its too dry, I add water. Easy peasy. I add to it when my bucket get to be 1/4 full. That's really all there is to it.

I've gone through 2 40 lbs bags of chick starter which I am also feeding the 6 chicks (who are also 6 weeks old) from my layers. So 22 chicks in 6 weeks. This is their last bag of chick starter, then they will get all flock like the rest of them.