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Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds
- Thread starter shadowmane
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I haven't read or watched his stuff..send me a link! I'd like to take a look.
You should be able to use that as a starter but really, you don't need to have a starter at all if you just let it ferment naturally. The purpose of a starter is to get things going more quickly and also to propagate specific LAB.
If you do natural fermentation, aka "wild fermentation", the ferment will begin by what is already in the air and on the substance you're fermenting. It is definitely a little more of a wild card but people fermenting sauerkraut, cheese, etc., for YEARS just did it the natural way.
In fact, that's why there are so many different kinds of cheeses - many of them named for the town in which they were first made. This is because the milk and the naturally present bacteria in that area of the world was different than what you'd find in a different part of the country or world (Think of Cheddar, Caerphilly, etc. ..both named after the towns in which they were made.) Both very similar cheeses but the naturally present bacteria, the ground the cows fed on, etc. were very different and produced a different cheese with a slightly different flavor.)
There are many kinds of LAB. Some are mesophillic ("medium temperature loving" - 72 - 95 degrees F approximately) and some are thermophillic (higher temperature loving - 100 - 116 degrees apx.). An example of a thermophillic culture are the cultures used in yogurt which grow well at higher temperatures of about 110 - 114 or so. Cultured buttermilk is made with mesophillic cultures which propagate better at the lower temperatures. Both of the cultures begin to die if the temperature is raised above the range that is healthy for them.
So...most of us that are doing feed are doing it at temperatures that would favor mesophillic cultures. If you want to use a starter you could even go get a little cultured buttermilk that has LIVE CULTURES and put a little bit into your bucket. That would be a very inexpensive item to use as a starter that is widely available!
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Now...ACV is actually a a product of a whole different kind of ferment. It comes after the alcohol stage and is at the point in which all of the carbs have been digested and what you have left is a high ACID product (low pH).
As I understand it (and I may learn more and have to change my view in the future) the main benefit of putting the ACV into your ferment would more than likely be to acidify the mixture a little at the beginning to help keep the "bad bacteria" from proliferating and give the "good" bacteria the chance to begin to grow and get a good foothold. The high acidity of the ACV does not allow bacteria to be present within the acv - or at least in very low levels.
Some of the folks using ff have noticed that when it gets smelling "funky", if they add more ACV that seems to rectify the problem. What I believe (based on my knowledge) is happening in that process is that the "not so desirable" bacteria and yeasts/molds are growing out of control and by lowering the pH (raising acidity) you are actually creating an environment in which they begin do die off and hopefully are giving the "GOOD BACTERIA" the chance to begin to proliferate again.
So... sorry I seem to have "written a book" again...I hope some of that is helpful and makes sense.
I'm just getting ready to leave an will not be back on probably until later tonight so I won't get to read for awhile!
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counrtygirl, I make my lab that same way, and use it for very similar ways (spray on deep litter, garden ect...) I was looking forward to seeing if it really controlled white powder mildew this past year, but we are in such a drought I haven't had any issues w/ it in two years, guess there is a silver lining to the drought after all. lol
I've tried making the imo's but so far have been unsuccessfull, but really haven't tried lately. I am very fascinated by Korean Natural Farming techniques though. I think it is Galena who has experimented w/ it too.
I thought I had started a thread on it, but couldn't find it, I know I had a pretty lengthy discussion w/ someone about it maybe on a garden thread or on TEG?????
I've tried making the imo's but so far have been unsuccessfull, but really haven't tried lately. I am very fascinated by Korean Natural Farming techniques though. I think it is Galena who has experimented w/ it too.
I thought I had started a thread on it, but couldn't find it, I know I had a pretty lengthy discussion w/ someone about it maybe on a garden thread or on TEG?????
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It may have been on here some time ago Kassaundra as I remember reading it.
I haven't read or watched his stuff..send me a link! I'd like to take a look.
You should be able to use that as a starter but really, you don't need to have a starter at all if you just let it ferment naturally. The purpose of a starter is to get things going more quickly and also to propagate specific LAB.
If you do natural fermentation, aka "wild fermentation", the ferment will begin by what is already in the air and on the substance you're fermenting. It is definitely a little more of a wild card but people fermenting sauerkraut, cheese, etc., for YEARS just did it the natural way.
In fact, that's why there are so many different kinds of cheeses - many of them named for the town in which they were first made. This is because the milk and the naturally present bacteria in that area of the world was different than what you'd find in a different part of the country or world (Think of Cheddar, Caerphilly, etc. ..both named after the towns in which they were made.) Both very similar cheeses but the naturally present bacteria, the ground the cows fed on, etc. were very different and produced a different cheese with a slightly different flavor.)
There are many kinds of LAB. Some are mesophillic ("medium temperature loving" - 72 - 95 degrees F approximately) and some are thermophillic (higher temperature loving - 100 - 116 degrees apx.). An example of a thermophillic culture are the cultures used in yogurt which grow well at higher temperatures of about 110 - 114 or so. Cultured buttermilk is made with mesophillic cultures which propagate better at the lower temperatures. Both of the cultures begin to die if the temperature is raised above the range that is healthy for them.
So...most of us that are doing feed are doing it at temperatures that would favor mesophillic cultures. If you want to use a starter you could even go get a little cultured buttermilk that has LIVE CULTURES and put a little bit into your bucket. That would be a very inexpensive item to use as a starter that is widely available!
*****************
Now...ACV is actually a a product of a whole different kind of ferment. It comes after the alcohol stage and is at the point in which all of the carbs have been digested and what you have left is a high ACID product (low pH).
As I understand it (and I may learn more and have to change my view in the future) the main benefit of putting the ACV into your ferment would more than likely be to acidify the mixture a little at the beginning to help keep the "bad bacteria" from proliferating and give the "good" bacteria the chance to begin to grow and get a good foothold. The high acidity of the ACV does not allow bacteria to be present within the acv - or at least in very low levels.
Some of the folks using ff have noticed that when it gets smelling "funky", if they add more ACV that seems to rectify the problem. What I believe (based on my knowledge) is happening in that process is that the "not so desirable" bacteria and yeasts/molds are growing out of control and by lowering the pH (raising acidity) you are actually creating an environment in which they begin do die off and hopefully are giving the "GOOD BACTERIA" the chance to begin to proliferate again.
So... sorry I seem to have "written a book" again...I hope some of that is helpful and makes sense.
I'm just getting ready to leave an will not be back on probably until later tonight so I won't get to read for awhile!
Thanks for all the information! I find it fascinating! I would be really interested in trying to ferment the food with LAB if I can get it right and would be healthier. I still like using ACV - maybe just adding it to their water once in a while...
Here is the link to make/cultivate your own LAB. Let me know what you think and if you have a suggestion on how to start fermented feed using that. Thanks!
- Dec 29, 2012
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I'm not sure how to answer this. Have I ever used oregano to treat an active infection in my flock? No, we've never had an infection in the flock. (I started with only 5 hens who are less than a year old.)
Have I ever used oregano to treat an active infection in my household? Absolutely. You can find more information by reading Herbal Antibiotics http://www.bulkherbstore.com/Herbal-Antibiotics or going to http://www.everythingessential.me/ We used oregano oil most recently when strep was going around the office. I got a sore throat, which I treated immediately using this protocol: http://www.everythingessential.me/HealthConcerns/SoreThroat.html#page=page-2 It was gone in a matter of hours. I'll never know if it was strep or just another sore throat, but I really don't care as long as it's gone.
Please, forgive me for not quoting the rest of the conversation on the LABs thread. I'm feeling rather lazy this morning. It is absolutely correct that lactic-acid bacteria thrives under anaerobic conditions. I am careful to use a jar that is truly airtight with a decent airlock for fermenting for the family (the cheapest, quality product out there: http://www.pickl-it.com/ ), but I haven't done so for my gals, simply because I don't believe buying a Harsch crock to ferment enough for my entire flock is a good use of my family's resources. The choice was made easier by the fact that my gals are thriving on the fermented feed that they're already receiving. If you want to learn more, there is a lot on the Cooking Traditional Foods blog. Here are two good places to start:
http://www.cookingtf.com/fermentation-controversy/
http://www.cookingtf.com/fermentation-friday-why-i-wont-ferment-without-a-separate-airlock-part-i/
BTW, there are a lot of links in this post, but I wanted to say that I'm not affiliated with any of them. I'm just an opinionated gal who spends a lot of time doing research.
Cheers!
I have used Thyme. I will type it all out and send you the information via PM
- Aug 7, 2012
- 104
- 0
- 79
After reading about fermenting grain i went surfing and found a zillion articles on fermented food. One thing i learned is not to use yeast for getting grain or feed to ferment.This seemed to be stated enough times on various sites.
I m not sure if i was overcome or tired but im currently trying some pickle juice with some apple vinegar and water.Ive seen my wheat seed start to ferment with just putting it in a quart jar to soak for sprouting. Wine and beer were mentioned alot.I got some buckets and want to do the slop method between two buckets,also three days seems to be the most mentioned time line for soaking seed and getting it to ferment enough.Many sites mention that people arent letting stuff sit enough,many wash out their grain after it just smells a bit.
Im no expert but i need to get my bantams to eat the grain i have and if fermenting helps?well thats why im doing it. Maybe they get a buzz? Reading about fermenting grains was interesting.Look up pickle juice,people in prison even made booze with it.
I m not sure if i was overcome or tired but im currently trying some pickle juice with some apple vinegar and water.Ive seen my wheat seed start to ferment with just putting it in a quart jar to soak for sprouting. Wine and beer were mentioned alot.I got some buckets and want to do the slop method between two buckets,also three days seems to be the most mentioned time line for soaking seed and getting it to ferment enough.Many sites mention that people arent letting stuff sit enough,many wash out their grain after it just smells a bit.
Im no expert but i need to get my bantams to eat the grain i have and if fermenting helps?well thats why im doing it. Maybe they get a buzz? Reading about fermenting grains was interesting.Look up pickle juice,people in prison even made booze with it.
I know you had that conversation too but could not find it. I thought someone else started the thread though.
Did you use the oregano oil straight. How was it given.
Lacy could you possibly send this to me.
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