Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[BlueMouse]

This is clever. I kept my feed in my DH's server closet this winter, the only place in the house reliably over 60 (all those servers keep it WARM in there) but I think he would appreciate the brewers belt or reptile heat mat as an alternative!

 

[RedRidge]

So how warm does the FF need to be kept over the winter? hadn't thought about that, but guess I better.
You are all so useful on this thread... thanks!

 

[echosrevenge]

Oof! Finally made it to the end of the thread....what a journey!

Have been fermenting for all the birds for a couple of weeks now. We have 15 adult chickens, ~15 juveniles (number changes as we get hungry and weather is good for spit roasting outside...yum!), anywhere between 20 and 60 chicks hatching every week, 6 juvenile pekin meat ducks, and 26 ducklings. I've been feeding a wet mash for several months (the adults had pellets available, but I took them away a week or so ago and put oyster shell in that feeder because they were just waiting in the run for food instead of ranging our 5-acre forest/meadow property for food - I got sick of the ticks, so they are being forced to hustle up more on their own.) the FF definitely saves me time, especially now that I am only feeding the chicks twice a day (sometimes five times for the ducklings, though, they eat as much as the rest of the flock put together!) and feeding the outside birds only once. We are currently fermenting a 50/50 mix of layer and starter/grower (what I had on hand) but I just found a bulk feed mill closer than the nearest feed store (we're so far out on a dirt road that I have to call FedEx when im expecting a package and insist several times that the dirt road does indeed go as far as our house number...) so once our landlords finish pulling all their crap out of the shed ill be able to buy grains in bulk and mix my own. Excited to start seeing the feed savings, as we decided to drastically increase our flock size AND get back into ducks right before my husband took an awesome new job - which unfortunately came with a 40% pay cut. Worth it for him to set his own hours and not hate his life, but savings on the feed bill (and higher hatch rates so we can sell more chicks/chickens, better weight gain so we get more meat off the 'extra' DP roos, etc) is increasingly important.

One question I do have, though...husband's new job is at an organic bakery, and since they know they can't pay him what he's worth they've offered him all the day old bread he can haul as chicken feed. Its an all-sourdough bakery, how should I best handle this windfall? Mix it in to the FF? Feed it dry and just toss it in the yard? Its not moldy, just the "oops" cuts when they slice for their deli customers, and the occasional bit of day-old bread - the bakery doesn't sell the day olds, as the owner put it to my husband, "this is Maine - if we sold day olds, we'd never sell any fresh bread!" Once my husband is a bit more established there, he's going to get the shapers & bakers to sweep the cornmeal used for proofing and the whole grains that fall off the multigrain loaves as they're sliced into buckets to bring home for the birds as well. Right now they just slide it all onto the floor, and then into the trash (waste like that makes me want to cry...too much permaculture, I hate unutilized waste streams, especially ones that are so EASY to make into an amazing asset!) That stuff I will likely just add to the FF bucket - which is a single bucket system, 30g trash can that I keep at the thick-oatmeal consistency for ease of feeding - we raise Faverolles, and the fluffy faces dont always mix well with soupy feed - especially when sharing feeders with large, messy, food-slinging ducks. Ive fermented before, beer and wines and pickles and kraut, so im pretty confident on that end, the whole if it smells good it probably is thing. Fermenting the chicken feed definitely makes me want to start brewing again!

One benefit I haven't seen mentioned, which I've noticed in our most recent hatch, the first ones to be on FF from day 1, is a lot less eye problems. Usually we have a couple of chicks from each hatch who get face feathers or some crap in their eyes, get crusty to where they can't open/close their eyes, and often end up being culled after several days of several-times-a-day eye soaks and washes. This was one of the larger hatches we've had - 53 chicks - and only three chicks have this problem, one of them had other neurological problems and was culled, the other two its only on one side - one of those two got pecked in the eye right out of the egg, and its healing nicely. Usually its one in ten, and mostly they get culled. Definitely a fan of not having to spend hours a day washing the faces of screaming chicks! The two-week-olds seem to be more feathered than last groups as well - they've been on FF for just over a week, and have nearly full cape and back feathers, some are even starting to grow head feathers which I've never seen in birds less than 4wks. Same parent stock, and this hatch was from eggs laid before I started the FF too, so that's really the only difference. I dont seem to have to change out their hot water bottles as often, either (we're off grid so dont use heat lamps - one heat lamp would use our whole battery bank in a matter of hours!) It also seems like egg size has increasd, though I've been battling with broody hens so it could be that only the larger-egg-layers are laying right now. The jury is still out, but i do like the ease of feeding vs. mixing up a different wet mash for every group like i was doing.

 

[BlueMouse]

I do know that too much bread is not supposed to be good for chickens. I dry out my crusts and bread ends and then soak them in clabbered milk/whey and give to the birds, especially the meat birds and chicks. It has been traditional in france to fatten birds up on clabbered milk. and clabbered milk and bread seems to be good for lush feather production in juveniles and ; moulting birds. Certainly all my juveniles have very lush feathers! There is a good deal of concern that too much bread may lead to sour crop because of the simple starches present. So.... take that as you will? I certainly don't think it will hurt them to have some, but I personally don't think I'd make it a lot of their diet? of course, I only have 8 birds so a little goes a long ways.

that cornmeal will be an amaing windfall! I wish I could find something like that here!

 

[Kilsharion]

So how warm does the FF need to be kept over the winter? hadn't thought about that, but guess I better.
You are all so useful on this thread... thanks!

It depends on the type of fermentation you are doing.

I'm doing a yeast based fermentation. If doing a yeast based fermentation, it then depends on what type of yeast colony you are using. Some colonies prefer it in the low to mid 70s. Some prefer it around 62-65. I have found that if I go with 70 (ish - sometimes I drop down to the high sixties or jump to the low 70s), my fermentation keeps going well. It seems to love 72. I have a wild yeast colony in my current fermentation, so it took me a bit of time to find the sweet spot for it.

One question I do have, though...husband's new job is at an organic bakery, and since they know they can't pay him what he's worth they've offered him all the day old bread he can haul as chicken feed. Its an all-sourdough bakery, how should I best handle this windfall? Mix it in to the FF? Feed it dry and just toss it in the yard? Its not moldy, just the "oops" cuts when they slice for their deli customers, and the occasional bit of day-old bread - the bakery doesn't sell the day olds, as the owner put it to my husband, "this is Maine - if we sold day olds, we'd never sell any fresh bread!"

Welcome to the "end".

As for bread - as BlueMoose above stated, it's not good to feed chickens too much bread. In part, it's sodium rich. Unless you're making it at home or the bakery actually bakes their bread without salt (very, very unusual). Add in the simple starches as BM mentioned...well, it's a great treat; but, not a good staple.

 

[echosrevenge]

that's what I was leaning towards myself...a good "hey come over here and...whoops! Locked in the coop while I go to the store!" treat, but not a staple. I'm hassling him daily to start making everyone wipe the dropped grains and cornmeal into a bucket, though...thats the good stuff that I really want. Any forseeable problems with dropping baked whole grains into the FF bucket?

 

[echosrevenge]

Ah! I remembered my other question from earlier too- someone mentioned not using wood or metal to stir the FF. I get not using metal other than stainless steel that doesn't sit in the bucket, but why the objection to wood? I whittled myself a nice big feed spurdle (rounded stick used to stir porridge on Scotland for centuries) the other night, and I quite enjoy using it. I used a nice stick of maple off our own land, and my husband just about peed himself laughing when he saw me knocking around a 30-gallon trash can with a huge knobby stick.

 

[Zootopia]

I have been using a shovel, new square one, looks like it is covered in a non-stick. I dont leave it in the barrel, i rinse it by stirring the grain bucket.

 

[Kilsharion]

Ah! I remembered my other question from earlier too- someone mentioned not using wood or metal to stir the FF. I get not using metal other than stainless steel that doesn't sit in the bucket, but why the objection to wood? I whittled myself a nice big feed spurdle (rounded stick used to stir porridge on Scotland for centuries) the other night, and I quite enjoy using it. I used a nice stick of maple off our own land, and my husband just about peed himself laughing when he saw me knocking around a 30-gallon trash can with a huge knobby stick.

All I can imagine is that someone likes to leave the wood in the FF bucket....or lives in an environment that is not conducive to prompt drying...that would be a bad thing as it would encourage mold. But, I use a big, old bit of wood to stir every day. Have done for quite some time. A good stir, tap tap, lean against the wall on my bucket shelf and it's good to go. No muss no fuss.

As for using the whole grains in your FF - don't see any problem with that. The fermentation will help break down some of the acids and such that make whole grains a bit of a no no for significant food choice. It's one reason I love fermentation so much.

 

[swirler]

I'm not sure about wood, but I had a cotton bathmat laid over the bucket, and in a storm it blew in to the mix. The hooch very rapidly ate a huge hole in the cotton.

I use a stainless steel strainer-spoon to stir and ladle out the mix, and I always rinse it well after contact.