Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[BlueMouse]

I use both bucket methods! my whole grains are in a double bucket so I can easily drain them. My game bird starter/ground feed for chicks I keep in a single bucket and must mix thicker so I can scoop it straight into their feeders. I think it's whatever you think will work best for you? I know some poeple have several buckets going, and they use up one then re-start it and go on to the next. I use mine like a sourdough starter, but I have much fewer birds!

 

[me me me]

Here is a good article if you want reasons to use FF
http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html?m=1

 

[Lacy Blues]

One thing I DO understand regarding the fermenting and protein is that fermenting does NOT increase the protein of the feed being fermented. What it does is make it more available to the bird... say you have 16% protein lay pellets and you feed them to your birds, dry... Apparently the birds do not get the full benefit of that 16% protein and I have no idea what amount they are able to use but let's call it 12%. If the fermentation process makes the protein more available by 3% then their total protein uptake is 12.48% (12% + ((16 x .03)). Not a whole heck of a lot of difference there. But if you feed a game bird product and the crude protein is around 20%, then the total uptake of the birds is (and correct me if I'm wrong here) is still only 12% but if you then ferment that product then the protein uptake goes from 12% up to 12.6% (12% + ((20 x .03)) which still isn't a whole heck of a lot.

Am I right or wrong?

Oh, and something I wanted to say about that hot water method of making fermented feed... I really don't think that the live cultures in the ACV that they use can take that hot water. In other words, I believe that the hot water is killing the cultures. Now, warm water would be fine... even warm to the point of being almost hot. I wouldn't make it any hotter than my personal shower.

 

[armorfirelady]

Method question, and the answer may be buried somewhere of this thread (but 560+ pages and all...)

Any one better than the other?

2 Bucket system with drain holes drilled (anyone have a photo of this setup by the way? Holes drilled in the bottom of bucket 1 or the sides of bucket 1? How much soggy feed drains into bucket 2? A detailed description of this setup or a link to one would be appreciated).

No strain hot water method described in the articles here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/no-strain-hot-water-easy-fermented-feed-method-w-video

Standard single bucket method?

I use the 2 bucket method. I dont use the top bucket to drain though. I just scoop the FF into their feeder trough. I and the hens prefer the FF to be of a cookie dough consistency. Rarely is their water above the FF. Sometimes I get a gray coloring to the top of the FF but I just stir it in.
Here is a picture of my FF in the 2 bucket system:

The only thing I find in the 2nd bucket is watery sludge that I occasionally scrape out and into the top bucket

 

[RedRidge]

I am using only one bucket and have a stainless steel colinder I scoop into the drain it (so yes, there is a smaller bucket under the strainer).
The reason I do it this way is because I feed by weight... because I don't want my premix fermented (things like fish meal), I add it after... in order to add the correct amounts and ratios you have to weigh it to get it accurate.

It works for me... I will post a pic later this morning.

 

[RedRidge]

I know exactly what you mean. I'm feeling like I'll keep feeding my custom-mixed feed from the mill and forget the fermentation, no matter how good it sounds to have fewer stinky poops. Am I a bad person if I dont' really care that they don't have optimal intestinal health as long as I can keep them clean? After all, they're only around for eight weeks.

This is a good point... I ferment for my other chicks, but once a year I raise a group of Cornish X... I haven't decided it if will be worth the extra trouble to ferment for them for several reasons. Mostly... I find that providing free choice prevents them from gorging and having heart attacks. Would be almost impossible to free feed ferment.
I usually raise my group in the fall so I haven't decided exactly how I will do it this coming year.

 

[colburg]

Quote: I just finished with 48 straight run BBQ Special from Murray Mcmurray(half CX and Half game hen) that got FF from day one. According to the WELP hatchery section on CX, if you only feed for 12hrs/day, you can cut the rate of flip way down. I used a single 5gal bucket to ferment in at first. When they got to the point of using that up in less than 48 hrs, I added a second bucket. In the end, I had 4 5gal buckets going, feeding 2 to 2.5 buckets/day. All I used for a feed trough was a 7' long peice of 6" PVC cut in half. It will hold about one and half 5gal buckets of feed and would last from 5:30am till about 2-3pm. My wife could give more when they needed, or if she was N/A, they would just wait an hour till I got home to get fed.

Here's a few numbers crunched for anyone that's interested.
Out of 50 BBQ Special ordered, 52 were shipped, one died on the way.
One died at about 3-4 days old, and another one died at 3 weeks.
One more at 8 weeks, and only one developed leg problems at 8 weeks.

We butchered at 9 wks. Since we butchered the one that flipped at 8 weeks, it died while I was feeding them, and the one with leg problems, and they were so close to making it the full 9 weeks, I used 48 birds to figure my averages.

48 butchered
ate 925 lbs food(measured dry)(fermented from day one) 1 bag non-med starter, 14.5 bags 20% layer pellets, 3 bags scratch.
$17.99/bag $11.25/bag $11.25/bag

each bird ate 19.27 lbs feed(pre-fermented weight)
=$4.79/bird

got 204.75lbs whole chicken
=4.27 lbs/bird

=$1.12/lb whole chicken(this is only feed price)

We paid $2.03/bird from Mcmurray.
=$1.60/lb whole chicken(feed plus cost of chick)

Note: I weighed the first 23 butchered. This included necks + skin + all the fat I could leave on it.
My wife weighed the other 23 on the second day. her and my MIL pulled the skin off the necks, and trimmed the birds up some.

 

[Triple Willow]

I just finished with 48 straight run BBQ Special from Murray Mcmurray(half CX and Half game hen) that got FF from day one.  According to the WELP hatchery section on CX, if you only feed for 12hrs/day, you can cut the rate of flip way down.  I used a single 5gal bucket to ferment in at first.  When they got to the point of using that up in less than 48 hrs, I added a second bucket.  In the end, I had 4 5gal buckets going, feeding 2 to 2.5 buckets/day.  All I used for a feed trough was a 7' long peice of 6" PVC cut in half.  It will hold about one and half 5gal buckets of feed and would last from 5:30am till about 2-3pm.  My wife could give more when they needed, or if she was N/A, they would just wait an hour till I got home to get fed.

Here's a few numbers crunched for anyone that's interested.
Out of 50 BBQ Special ordered, 52 were shipped, one died on the way.
One died at about 3-4 days old, and another one died at 3 weeks.
One more at 8 weeks, and only one developed leg problems at 8 weeks.

We butchered at 9 wks.  Since we butchered the one that flipped at 8 weeks, it died while I was feeding them, and the one with leg problems, and they were so close to making it the full 9 weeks, I used 48 birds to figure my averages.

48 butchered
ate 925 lbs food(measured dry)(fermented from day one)  1 bag non-med starter, 14.5 bags 20% layer pellets, 3 bags scratch.
                                                                                    $17.99/bag                  $11.25/bag                         $11.25/bag

each bird ate 19.27 lbs feed(pre-fermented weight)
=$4.79/bird

got 204.75lbs whole chicken
=4.27 lbs/bird

=$1.12/lb whole chicken(this is only feed price) 

We paid $2.03/bird from Mcmurray.
=$1.60/lb whole chicken(feed plus cost of chick)

Note: I weighed the first 23 butchered.  This included necks + skin + all the fat I could leave on it.
My wife weighed the other 23 on the second day.  her and my MIL pulled the skin off the necks, and trimmed the birds up some.

Sound good! Have you thought about growing your own meat birds to finish out? I know they are not as big or fast growing as the CornishX but I do wonder how it would turn out with some good birds.

 

[colburg]

Sound good! Have you thought about growing your own meat birds to finish out? I know they are not as big or fast growing as the CornishX but I do wonder how it would turn out with some good birds.

We have thought about it. In fact, Robert Blosl, over on the Heritage Thread, https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/400344/heritage-large-fowl-thread is helping sort some things out right now so that we can get some good birds. These will be true to SOP type birds that actually have meat on them. When we get that program up and running I'll put some more numbers up here to compare.

 

[Gryphon]

These guys aren't meaties, they're Light Brahmas I just got last weekend. As soon as I put down the ff they dove right in! http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=R9Wu...=/watch?v=R9WuBbN7Osg&feature=em-upload_owner I've never had chickens before so I assume those trilling noises are when they find something extra tasty?