Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[armorfirelady]

These guys aren't meaties, they're Light Brahmas I just got last weekend. As soon as I put down the ff they dove right in! http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=R9Wu...=/watch?v=R9WuBbN7Osg&feature=em-upload_owner I've never had chickens before so I assume those trilling noises are when they find something extra tasty?

Those look & sound like very happy chics

 

[Gryphon]

I forgot to mention that I have three pullets as well (a Black Australorp, a Silver Penciled Rock, and an Ameracauna) that are also providing some of the background noise. They also ran right up to the ff and nommed it up. I served it pretty watery which didn't bother them at all, they actually drank up the "broth" first and then started pecking at the food.

 

[ash10383]

been doing ff for about 2 months now and decided to stop, they were still eating the same amount as dry feed and taking more time I thought it would :/ I would have continued had I seen a real difference

 

[B J Hopkins]

My Turkey chicks are eating FF now. What Momma eats, baby eats

. On an odd note: Both of my female turkey are raising babies (together/share & share alike), this morning I found a fresh egg! Guess my Bourbon Red knew what she was about when she let the Tom mate w/her last week.

Also my Silkies are raising Standard chicks on FF. Babies are just 4wks old and ONE of the Silkies is laying eggs again! (3 Momma's raising 4 standard babies)

 

[AVintageLife]

if it looks anything like this, it's not mold. It's fermentation at work, a good thing.

Reviewing this thread as a refresher and loving it! I have a small flock and have been doing FF for a while and it is great stuff. I've had a gray top on my small batch occasionally and tossed it. Reading here now that I could have just scraped it off and kept going. I also have the white film on the top once in a while, no green tint or anything but definitely a cottony appearance. Have tossed previous batches with that as well. Last night I just scraped off the white film, fed the batch and stirred everything well. This morning it has that good FF brewy smell with just a hint of the garlic I added last night. So I guess my question is, if the FF has really gone BAD, the odor would be how I would know that (or of course green mold on top)? I just don't want to poison anyone and I have some chicks that will be hatching next week and I want to start them right on the FF.

 

[Kilsharion]

Reviewing this thread as a refresher and loving it! I have a small flock and have been doing FF for a while and it is great stuff. I've had a gray top on my small batch occasionally and tossed it. Reading here now that I could have just scraped it off and kept going. I also have the white film on the top once in a while, no green tint or anything but definitely a cottony appearance. Have tossed previous batches with that as well. Last night I just scraped off the white film, fed the batch and stirred everything well. This morning it has that good FF brewy smell with just a hint of the garlic I added last night. So I guess my question is, if the FF has really gone BAD, the odor would be how I would know that (or of course green mold on top)? I just don't want to poison anyone and I have some chicks that will be hatching next week and I want to start them right on the FF.

If you avoid any feeds that have meat products in them (ie. fishmeal, "meat byproducts", etc) then you'll know the second it goes bad because it will stink.

A grain fermentation or a crumbles/pellet fermentation without meat products in it has a yeasty fermenting smell that you are used to smelling. However, if it starts to go "off", you will know.....it starts off smelling kinda like an old gym locker room, then progresses in stink until you'd swear there was a dead body somewhere around your brew.

There are some molds and bacteria that can infiltrate your fermentation and cause health problems (like botulism in a sealed fermentation). Many are not problematic at all. Just look at the various cheeses and LAB fermentations people create. Some people choose to remove the mold/bacteria and start over. Some choose to remove it and use the feed. Some choose to just ignore it and let it be. It's personal preference. Unless you have a truly obvious bad bacterial infestation (will make the fermentation go off) the only way to know for sure if it's a bad or beneficial bacteria is to either know what each one looks like both in growth and under a scope or get it tested.

I've never had a film on top of my hooch; but, if I did, I'd start over - mostly because of personal history (nearly died on my 36th birthday from a serious botulism episode). I'm not sure why I've never had a film - I don't have any sort of cover on my fermentation, so I'd expect something to come along. But, so far, it's only seemed to have been wild yeasts getting interested. I do inoculate with vinegar regularly by using vinegar to wash down the side of my bucket and then leaving it in the bucket when I add the hooch back in along with the fresh feed mix. That could play a part in it, I suppose. But, I'm pretty sure quite a few on here inoculate regularly with vinegar and still get the film, as well.

 

[RedRidge]

Quote: No criticism here, but I'd like to add just to clarify this... please note that you should NOT avoid animal proteins... your chickens need animal proteins. Many of us who ferment ferment only our grains and then add the premix ingredients such as fish meal, nutribalancer, meat and bone meal, limestone, etc... to the fermented grains.
I keep a container of dry ground grains and a container of premixed powder ingredients. I ferment the grains, and when I weigh out my ff each morning I then add (by weighing) the appropriate amount of premix powder to the ff and then stir and tada...
Please note... if you are feeding by weight (or parts) you need to account for the increase in weight of your grains from dry to wet... this is easily done by weighing only 1 lb of your grains, fermenting that one lb by itself, and then weighing it again. For instance my fermented grains are 2.25 times the weight of my dry grains. This means that 2.25 lbs of wet grains get the equivalent of premix that would be required for only 1 lb of dry grains.
Yes.. I keep an excel spreadsheet in the feed room that calculates all this.
I purposely have the same grain combinations for chicks as for laying hens so that I always grind the same ratios of dry grains for all management groups and then I simply have two different buckets of premix already made up (I do this about once a week), so that I add the premix according to each management group - more limestone for layers, more protein for chicks.

Hope that helps

 

[Demosthine]

been doing ff for about 2 months now and decided to stop, they were still eating the same amount as dry feed and taking more time I thought it would :/ I would have continued had I seen a real difference

Several things of importance here... First, how are you measuring your feed when you say they are eating the same amount as dry food? Fermented or soaked feed will swell to several times it's dry volume when it's soaked. My crumbles swell to about four times the volume of their dry weight. Even the grains will swell slightly. You can not go by wright, eithrr, because the absorbed water will increase your measurements. I had not noticed the savings at first because I was feeding a significantly larger amount of food and the clan absolutely devoured it. It took a full bag to realize I had gone significantly longer between purchases before I really recognized the decrease.

Also, mine seem to gourge themselves with the fermented feed, so I've had to limit their intake. This forces them to free-range and scavenge for extra food, ensuring their natural instincts remain and that they don't get bored. A bored flock is a problematic flock.

Remember, fermenting your feed is not strictly about reducing feed consumption, either. It is about maintaining the healthiest flock possible. Studies have shown the animals with healthy gastrointestinal tracks are significantly less likely to have worms or other internal parasites. The beneficial Flora that it encourages will do more for your flock than any medication ever can.

It's also been shown to increase egg size and shell strength, both of which are important. Many report having far better plumage on the fermented feed, too.

I encourage you to keep with it. The benefits are significant, although they do take some time to notice. We've been fermenting for about six months and have a very healthy flock with a very consistent production rate. We only lose one egg from each hen about everything other week. I am at probably four months of a near perfect record, while the non-fermenters have complained about drastic loss of production.

Patience is a virtue with all things chicken.

 

[BlueMouse]

huh. for me the "film" on top of the bucket is a sign that my ferment is going strong. If I don't have film it's normally a sign that I let the bucket deplete down too far before adding more grains, or had to add a whole bunch more water for some reason, and the ferment needs a day or two to catch back up. I just stir it all back down in.This bucket has been going since february, I've used it to start two other buckets (game bird starter for the turkeys and guineas, which just reeks all the time... can't wait until they're six weeks and can go on the ground grains I have in the other bucket for the chicks.) and they're going strong. If any of the smaller buckets get a little weak I add some of the "juice" from the big whole grains bucket to them to give them a little extra "boost"

 

[Kilsharion]

No criticism here, but I'd like to add just to clarify this... please note that you should NOT avoid animal proteins... your chickens need animal proteins. Many of us who ferment ferment only our grains and then add the premix ingredients such as fish meal, nutribalancer, meat and bone meal, limestone, etc... to the fermented grains.
I keep a container of dry ground grains and a container of premixed powder ingredients. I ferment the grains, and when I weigh out my ff each morning I then add (by weighing) the appropriate amount of premix powder to the ff and then stir and tada...
Please note... if you are feeding by weight (or parts) you need to account for the increase in weight of your grains from dry to wet... this is easily done by weighing only 1 lb of your grains, fermenting that one lb by itself, and then weighing it again. For instance my fermented grains are 2.25 times the weight of my dry grains. This means that 2.25 lbs of wet grains get the equivalent of premix that would be required for only 1 lb of dry grains.
Yes.. I keep an excel spreadsheet in the feed room that calculates all this.
I purposely have the same grain combinations for chicks as for laying hens so that I always grind the same ratios of dry grains for all management groups and then I simply have two different buckets of premix already made up (I do this about once a week), so that I add the premix according to each management group - more limestone for layers, more protein for chicks.

Hope that helps

Didn't say you should avoid them.

I said if you avoid FERMENTING them...fermenting fishmeal smells like a dead body on the side of the road that has laid there a few days in high temperatures...so - yeah, I prefer to avoid meat byproducts in my ferment.

I am still working on finishing off the last of my H&H feed (which has fishmeal in it)...after that, I'm on my own mix....My own mix is two part. The parts I ferment: grains, seeds and legumes. The parts I add after the fermentation: nutritional yeast, ground meal worms, powdered kelp, spirulina, dried skim milk and supplemental vitamins and minerals.

I've also supplied the link to a Pearson's Square calculator that I'm more than happy to provide again for people if they would like to have it.