Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[armorfirelady]

Quote: Its ok. I buy grit for my guys and I know that package says its made from limestone. Do you also have the grit free choice?

I would of never thought to add it to their FF. I just have it free choice in a giant metal feeder in their forage area.

 

[RedRidge]

Quote: Its ok. I buy grit for my guys and I know that package says its made from limestone. Do you also have the grit free choice?

I would of never thought to add it to their FF. I just have it free choice in a giant metal feeder in their forage area.
Interesting... I never thought to offer it free choice...hmm.. now you got me thinking.

My livestock rations have "evolved" over the years. All were originally derived from rations that were mixed for me by the co-op.
As I began to "tweak" those rations over the years as my understanding grew of each type of livestock's nutritional requirements, I have gradually pulled out ingredients that were something I didn't want... for instance, gmo corn and soybean meal... and replaced them with ingredients I did want.
Finally I got to the point where I was mixing my own and just buying or growing the ingredients.
Then I finally broke down and purchased a hammermill from Premier One so I could grind my own.

Long story short... not...

Ironically for my poultry feed I have simply never messed with the grit ingredient because it's always been in there.
Offering it free choice never occurred to me... I'll have to toy with that.
Thanks... always looking for ways to make my life easier...

 

[Kilsharion]

Its ok. I buy grit for my guys and I know that package says its made from limestone. Do you also have the grit free choice?

I would of never thought to add it to their FF. I just have it free choice in a giant metal feeder in their forage area.

I do the same thing for mine who are pinned up - they have a basin of poultry grit and a basin of calcium.

I live on a limestone infested riverside, so my free rangers are constantly gobbling the stuff down. I do have some grit and calcium out for them; but, they pretty much ignore it.

You may find that if you are using limestone for grit that they ignore their calcium supplements (limestone is calcium). Limestone is also a soluable stone, unlike granite or other insolubles that are used in Grani-grit, pigeon grits, etc. Not that it makes a huge difference as while it's breaking down, it performs the same function; but, just making you aware that limestone grit is considered a calcium supplement.

Also, if you are using limestone for grit - you may want to consider something different for chicks you intend to keep for the long haul (if you have any). Too much calcium in their diet can cause serious kidney problems.

 

[Kilsharion]

Instead of buying mealworm powder, have you thought about starting a mealworm colony? Far less expensive and ridiculously easy to do. Or even easier is a Madagascar hissing cochroaches. Those are better nutritionally, but slower at multiplying.

yes, the comment was in that string of information. Superbly well hidden.

((it really was well hidden in a rather lengthy sentence after "powdered mealworms"))

I just don't have the time or space at the moment to mess with it. Considering the rate I go through mealworms, I'm going to have to make the time...and, a significant amount of space. Which, I probably will as soon as my Livery is completed in the town. That will probably be about mid June. My full on fodder setup will be done out in the Livery as well.

And, you will never, ever, ever see me breeding cockroaches with intent **shudders**

 

[RedRidge]

Also, if you are using limestone for grit - you may want to consider something different for chicks you intend to keep for the long haul (if you have any). Too much calcium in their diet can cause serious kidney problems.

Hadn't had any problems but have a LOT of chicks right now.
Do you think half a lb of limestone per 50 lbs of feed is too much?

How do most folks handle this with their chicks? I've never thought about offering grit or oyster shells either one to the chicks... they "rotate" to different brooders and teenage housing as they grow, so adding more than just feed to each housing would be a pain.
Suggestions?
Maybe with the nutribalancer I can simply eliminate it from all my rations... but then who really needs what for both grit, calcium, oyster, etc? Hadn't thought about that breakdown... which is ironic given how anal I am about the other ingredients.
It's one of those... I've never had a problem so never thought about it.
We live in the side of a ridge that is all limestone... so much so that even the pastures didn't need liming after they had been overgrazed prior to us moving here - we were quite surprised. My adults rarely touch what is left out free choice for oyster shell... especially in the summer.
I worry a lot more about "balancing" in the winter months for the adults, but the chicks don't free range until they begin to lay, so they need balancing from day one.
Would love other's thoughts and opinions about what ingredients they offer free choice.

 

[armorfirelady]

Quote: Its ok. I buy grit for my guys and I know that package says its made from limestone. Do you also have the grit free choice?

I would of never thought to add it to their FF. I just have it free choice in a giant metal feeder in their forage area.
Interesting... I never thought to offer it free choice...hmm.. now you got me thinking.

My livestock rations have "evolved" over the years. All were originally derived from rations that were mixed for me by the co-op.
As I began to "tweak" those rations over the years as my understanding grew of each type of livestock's nutritional requirements, I have gradually pulled out ingredients that were something I didn't want... for instance, gmo corn and soybean meal... and replaced them with ingredients I did want.
Finally I got to the point where I was mixing my own and just buying or growing the ingredients.
Then I finally broke down and purchased a hammermill from Premier One so I could grind my own.

Long story short... not...

Ironically for my poultry feed I have simply never messed with the grit ingredient because it's always been in there.
Offering it free choice never occurred to me... I'll have to toy with that.
Thanks... always looking for ways to make my life easier...

Quote:

Also, if you are using limestone for grit - you may want to consider something different for chicks you intend to keep for the long haul (if you have any). Too much calcium in their diet can cause serious kidney problems.

Hadn't had any problems but have a LOT of chicks right now.
Do you think half a lb of limestone per 50 lbs of feed is too much?

How do most folks handle this with their chicks? I've never thought about offering grit or oyster shells either one to the chicks... they "rotate" to different brooders and teenage housing as they grow, so adding more than just feed to each housing would be a pain.
Suggestions?
Maybe with the nutribalancer I can simply eliminate it from all my rations... but then who really needs what for both grit, calcium, oyster, etc? Hadn't thought about that breakdown... which is ironic given how anal I am about the other ingredients.
It's one of those... I've never had a problem so never thought about it.
We live in the side of a ridge that is all limestone... so much so that even the pastures didn't need liming after they had been overgrazed prior to us moving here - we were quite surprised. My adults rarely touch what is left out free choice for oyster shell... especially in the summer.
I worry a lot more about "balancing" in the winter months for the adults, but the chicks don't free range until they begin to lay, so they need balancing from day one.
Would love other's thoughts and opinions about what ingredients they offer free choice.

Well I def dont have all the chickens that you do. I have 4 hens and tomorrow I get 4 chicks.

I have always left oyster shell & grit for free choice. Thats what I learned on here. They eat it when they need it. Someday's the hens eat the oyster shell like candy others days they don't. They are/have been on layer pellets since I got them last august at 12 weeks. The lady I purchased them from had them on it already so I just continued it. I have learned since then that they shouldn't be on the layer till they start laying. THey were only hatchery birds but they didn't start laying till Mid December (born in May) and 2 had prolapsed vents after they started laying. I had read thats from excess calcium. Was it caused because they had been on it since they were so young? I don't know but I did add some conditioner feed to up their protein level to their FF and after a month their prolapsed vents were gone & still ok.

I bought a 50# bag of layer feed last fall. I am still working on that bag. But when its gone they will be switched over to all flock. That way all the chicks/hens can be on the same FF. Less work.

My FF(dry mixed together) (for the hens) contains layer pellets, BOSS, millet, corn, oats, alfalfa pellets, gamebird conditioner, flax seeds, sunflower hearts & some other grains that are in the scratch. I also add garlic, basil, cayenne pepper (about once a month). I have also added parley & some other herbs I can't remember.

My new chicks will be on grower with a little boss & corn, oats, garlic & basil.

I mix all the dry ingredients together in a giant plastic tub that I store in the garage. I don't measure out for the hens when I feed them. A couple spoon fulls in the trough in the evening. I encourage them to forage in their area for their food. Sometimes they clean the trough normally they don't. They all have full crops when they are roosting.

They have oyster shell & grit available at all times. The grit is in that metal feeder on the right. I actually put it under their hut here at the one end so when it rains the water doesn't sit in the bottom & rust.


Saves me coop space......

I don't add as many herbs during the spring summer because they have a giant area full of grass, clover, dandelions, etc that keeps them busy. Or I should say as often. I planted a lot of herbs this year for the hens so I could give them some fresh but I do plan on trying to dry them or freeze them for the winter. Its the same for the veggies. I froze them last year and gave them throughout the winter. Ensured they had fresh veggies all winter yet didn't hurt my wallet.

 

[Demosthine]

Redridge-
What is the purpose of the limestone? For grit?

Limestone should not be used as grit. It is a soluable grit, meaning it will be broken down and absorbed in to the body. It may aid a small amount in the digestion, but not having the correct grit can cause problems. Limestone is used primarily as a calcium supplement, but make sure you do not buy dolomitic limestone. That is used in fertilizer and can be deadly to animals. True grit is most commonly made out of insoluable material, namely crushed granite.

Also, as mentioned, using limestone grit for chicks can lead to health problems later because of their ingestion of excessive calcium. It causes liver problems,

It's also important to know that you will need different size grit for different ages and sizes of birds. There is Chick Grit and Poultry Grit, so you'll need to make sure you have the right size.

Of course, free ranging, if you have the appropriate type of land in your area, eliminates the need to provide grit. The chickens choose the appropriate amount, size and type of grit naturally.

 

[Kilsharion]

Hadn't had any problems but have a LOT of chicks right now.
Do you think half a lb of limestone per 50 lbs of feed is too much?

How do most folks handle this with their chicks? I've never thought about offering grit or oyster shells either one to the chicks... they "rotate" to different brooders and teenage housing as they grow, so adding more than just feed to each housing would be a pain.
Suggestions?
Maybe with the nutribalancer I can simply eliminate it from all my rations... but then who really needs what for both grit, calcium, oyster, etc? Hadn't thought about that breakdown... which is ironic given how anal I am about the other ingredients.
It's one of those... I've never had a problem so never thought about it.
We live in the side of a ridge that is all limestone... so much so that even the pastures didn't need liming after they had been overgrazed prior to us moving here - we were quite surprised. My adults rarely touch what is left out free choice for oyster shell... especially in the summer.
I worry a lot more about "balancing" in the winter months for the adults, but the chicks don't free range until they begin to lay, so they need balancing from day one.
Would love other's thoughts and opinions about what ingredients they offer free choice.

I don't use limestone grit as grit. I thought I mentioned that, I guess I worded myself poorly

. It's a calcium supplement....It can, depending on what you're feeding, work as a grit for short periods. Many dispute that, and I'm not in the mood to argue it. As always, personal preference there. Because it is soluble, it would have to be fed every meal. That's not really a solution for me as the price alone would kick my behind - along with the fact that I have birds of all ages, so feeding a calcium supplement as grit really doesn't work.

Do not use limestone grit for chicks...kidneys will store excess calcium and shut down. Since chicks need hardly any calcium compared to layers/older birds, their little kidneys can keel right over.

I have a 50 pound bag of pigeon grit that I use for my grown birds. At the current rate of use, I will be out of my bag of grit abit over a year after I bought it. But, I live on very rocky ground. Even in the runs, my birds have access to all sorts of rocks to pick up and use as grit as they want. So...your mileage may vary.

For the little bitties, I use Grani-grit. I go through about 5#s of that in about three months. But, I don't keep heavy track of the grit. It's one of the cheapest things I buy and lasts the longest. I suppose I should track it more carefully.

I do not mix grit in with the feed. I see no reason to do so. The birds know when they need it, and instead of scattering it about as they dig through to get to the food - they walk over to a separate dish and take what they need when they need it. They know. I'd suggest a dish they can't scratch in, or they'll scatter it to the four winds and you'll think you're running out way before you really are.

When you offer free choice, you let the bird decide what they need. If they do not need calcium, they don't eat the supplements. If they don't need grit, they won't eat the grit. I have a mixed run for my "Menagerie" in which I have several different ages - from four weeks to four months. The four month old bird uses the larger grit. The four week olds use the grani-grit. Both are available for them to choose from (in different containers). They know the ones that are right for them and use them accordingly.

It's much much easier to do mixes when you do free choice calcium and grit, from what I've experienced.

Edited to remove a redundancy.

 

[Costa Rica Art]

If I am not mistaken, isn't oyster shell used for both grit and calcium? I remember when I was a youth we always had oyster shell in the hen house. It seems to me it was bought in 50# bags. At that time it was my job to fill feeders, gather eggs and clean the coop so I was never concerned about how often the oysters shells were bought, I just kept the pan for the oyster shell full, my uncle was in charge of purchases, he had money, I didn't.

Here in Costa Rica the regular layer feed has calcium in it plus I also buy it and keep it in a small feeder (no oyster shell though). I seems like it takes the pullets a little longer to get enough calcium, at first their eggs are fragile.

 

[Demosthine]

No, oyster shell is not a substitute for grit, either. Again, although it may help to a certain extent, it is not the proper material. Oyster shell is another calcium supplement. For true grit, you need an insoluble material like crushed granite or sand. You have to be careful with the type of sand, though, because it has to be the right size and clean sand. Some has extra chemicals in it that will poison your chickens.