Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Triple Willow]

Wow... those are pretty loaded questions... LOL
The one thing I tell people all the time is that a good lgd needs "guidance" the first 12-18 months of their life... not training.
This was a hard thing for me to realize as my background was in "training" dogs.
Good lgd's have the instinct to guard and protect, they simply needs guidance from their owners as to what the boundaries are (not literally, but figuratively).

Pups benefit tremendously from being exposed to poultry at a very young age.  Hens (and roosters too) rarely put up with the shenanigans of a pup, so the pup learns quickly that they shouldn't be messed with.  I'm talking... 6 or 8 week old pups.  The exposure at that age lets them know chickens exist prior to the pup becoming a potential harm to them.  So before that happens by 10 -12 weeks of age (depending on the pup), they no longer have access to the chickens again until they are through "adolescence".  Usually at least 18 months old.

With multiple guardians here my oldest usually has charge of the chickens.  As they age they slow down and chickens are much easier to keep up with than lambs. 

Training and guidance...
Mine are taught just basic manners... "off" meaning do not jump on humans, "sit" required for having their food bowl set down, "get back" meaning this gate I'm opening isn't for you.  They also learn to "kinda walk on a leash" - as in, just don't drag me.  This comes in handy sometimes, although I think mine have been on a leash a total of twice each.  LOL

Guidance is much more important... timing is critical so "being there" when something begins to get out of hand is the key.  The most common problem with pups (usually sometime between 6-12 months) is chasing.  My male chased a few times when he was about a year old.  I saw it, growled "NO" in a deep voice, and he sat and immediately looked remorseful.  My female at about 7 months old began to chase and would run right past me and totally ignore me.  This didn't happen for long... she got put with the rams for 30 days (who would NOT permit chasing)... then we tried again.  Once she learned to listen she never chased again.  Both dogs were totally dependable by a year of age. 

Breed... I chose Maremma because they are not a perimeter dog like pyrs... they bond with the stock more than with their property.  Pyrs tend to guard an area... maremma bond with their livestock more.  They are also exceptionally intuitive. Not to say other breeds aren't.  I had guardian donkeys prior to maremma.  I have never had another breed of lgd.  After doing years of research it became evident to me that they were the breed I needed.

Don't know if that helps at all... but....

Thanks a lot for all the information. I love advise from someone who has "actually done it". I wish it didn't take so long to get a pup to safely guard chickens. If one of yours does happen to kill a chicken, what do you do? I wonder what the going price is for a finished dog.

 

[BlueMouse]

and it's hard too if you don't have several different kinds of livestock I think. Because you can't put a chasing dog in with the rams, or the equivilant. At that point I think you end up having to do more hovering.... Not sure. I worked with a mentors AMAZING Kuvasz, but she was a three year old trained dog. I wasn't there for the majority of her training. Of course my mentor had Lincoln longwool sheep, and I can't imagine they took much in the way of crap from the dog. Once we have more than just the poultry, and a real barn, I'm getting one. I love that breed. They also bond to the stock, but to the family as well more than the Maremma's I think. My mentor said she liked the Kuvasz because they were loyal to her before the stock, and therefore not likely to decide she was somehow to be defended against. Of course, this was just one woman's experience.

Thank you red ridge for being willing to share your system! It's always enlightening to get a peek at someones system that's really working well. and yours obviously is.

 

[bbdal]

I can only answer that question "relatively".
Meaning relative to what other kinds of management practices you have.
Mine eat a lot less when they are free ranging. 

That said... I have "heard" that overall they will eat "less" FF under the same circumstances.  I am assuming that means if they usually eat .33 lb/day of dry (the equivalent divided dry with my 3:1 ratio is .2475 grains plus .0825 premix)  that they will eat "less" than the equivalent of that in FF (which would be less than (.2475 x 2.25) + .0825 = .639 lbs/day of FF).  So by weight if they eat less than double, then I figure they are consuming less for the same (or likely more and better) digestible nutrition.

For me, the real test will be this coming January... that's when I know just how much everyone eats on a daily basis because they aren't free ranging and I have no baby chicks.  You've probably figured out I'm pretty anal about my numbers, so you can bet I'll track their consumption through the winter and have a much more accurate idea instead of just a guess.

Long answer to your question... hopefully someone who has been feeding FF longer than I have and who doesn't free range can answer more accurately.
The problem during free range season is that they eat so little if any anyway.  I am only feeding chicks and confined broodys right now... everyone else forages.

Anyone have input on this?
Thanks

 

[BlueMouse]

Lookie what I got to ferment my feed in! Now I can do big batches of grains and get a better "average ferment time" than I was in my 3 gal bucket. And no worries about anything yucky leaching out into the feed either

And the very best part was I got it off craigslist for $30. It holds 15 gallons! I tell you what, watching craigslist can really pay off.

So I scraped out my old bucket and put it in as a "starter" with a bunch more grains and water. Now I have to chop down and whittle myself a "spurdle" for it, because no way is my big slotted spoon going to cut it in this baby. I ended up not putting all the sludge from the bottom of the second bucket in, although I'm sure I probably should have. It just smelled so STRONG. not rotten or spoiled, but so strong that it wasn't really a pleasant pickle/sourdough smell either. In fact it was pretty stinky

Since I was undecided, I put about half of it in, put a little in my other ferment bucket to "freshen" it up, and tossed the rest. It was so strong that it was burning my skin in the one or two places that it splashed on me! Yikes! I'm not sure how long it will take for this to get going. The good news is that the temps are up in a range that's conducive for fermentation right now.

 

[BCMaraniac]

Lookie what I got to ferment my feed in! Now I can do big batches of grains and get a better "average ferment time" than I was in my 3 gal bucket. And no worries about anything yucky leaching out into the feed either

And the very best part was I got it off craigslist for $30. It holds 15 gallons! I tell you what, watching craigslist can really pay off.

So I scraped out my old bucket and put it in as a "starter" with a bunch more grains and water. Now I have to chop down and whittle myself a "spurdle" for it, because no way is my big slotted spoon going to cut it in this baby. I ended up not putting all the sludge from the bottom of the second bucket in, although I'm sure I probably should have. It just smelled so STRONG. not rotten or spoiled, but so strong that it wasn't really a pleasant pickle/sourdough smell either. In fact it was pretty stinky

Since I was undecided, I put about half of it in, put a little in my other ferment bucket to "freshen" it up, and tossed the rest. It was so strong that it was burning my skin in the one or two places that it splashed on me! Yikes! I'm not sure how long it will take for this to get going. The good news is that the temps are up in a range that's conducive for fermentation right now.

I love those old stoneware crocks.....they weigh a ton!! It is ironic that you bought it to ferment feed.....those were generally used to make pickles or sauerkraut!!

 

[Triple Willow]

Hi everybody. I have a question for you... I want to buy some electric poultry netting and I am wondering about brands, features, which company has the best buy, and that sort of thing. Can any of you tell me about it? Thanks!

 

[RedRidge]

Hi everybody. I have a question for you... I want to buy some electric poultry netting and I am wondering about brands, features, which company has the best buy, and that sort of thing. Can any of you tell me about it? Thanks!

You want to look at stake type, height, and hole size. Stake type is most important. Make sure you get the double step in posts and not the single. For chickens you want the smaller squares, not the larger. Height depends on having any lgd's or other livestock that you want to keep in or out.
This is what I have ... We rotate all livestock daily with it and I love it. I kept poultry, lgd's, sheep, and cattle in it.
http://www.kencove.com/fence/Electric+Net+Fencing_detail_NSPCG.php

 

[armorfirelady]

Hi everybody. I have a question for you... I want to buy some electric poultry netting and I am wondering about brands, features, which company has the best buy, and that sort of thing. Can any of you tell me about it? Thanks!

Hello,

I purchased my electric netting from Premier:
http://www.premier1supplies.com/fencing.php?mode=detail&fence_id=30

The link above is the netting I got. Double spike green in color. I got 200" of netting and it covers a giant area for my hens to forage in. I can easily move it myself for mowing. Keeps my dogs & other predators out. LOVE IT. Was very easy to set up.

I had a problem with the charger I got. Their customer service was AMAZING. They walked me through a couple easy test to figure out the problem. It was a bad cord from the charger to the outlet & a free replacement was in the mail the same day !!!!
Here is the charger I got:
http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=49695&cat_id=162 works wonderfully.

I believe Leahs Mom has it also (or maybe BDM?) & they have had great luck with it also. It got some great reviews from people on here & I dont regret buying it at all. I want to get a solar panel for it next.

 

[Triple Willow]

@RedRidge and Amorfirelady...
Thank you guys for the response. I have three fence boxes/electric boxes/chargers (whatever you call them). But they are for long lines of regular wire fencing. Can I use one of them on this net or will it mess it up? I remember when I was a youngster I hooked one up to some cute little plastic covered wire and it immediately melted the wire into a million pieces. LOL I sure wouldn't want to do that to this net! I think all of my chargers have the "weed chopper" also. So would I have to get another charger? ...and will a high powered charger connected to regular wire kill a chicken? I would hate to do that!
@RedRidge... Is that 40" net you use?

Thanks much to you both!

 

[armorfirelady]

@RedRidge and Amorfirelady...
Thank you guys for the response. I have three fence boxes/electric boxes/chargers (whatever you call them). But they are for long lines of regular wire fencing. Can I use one of them on this net or will it mess it up? I remember when I was a youngster I hooked one up to some cute little plastic covered wire and it immediately melted the wire into a million pieces. LOL I sure wouldn't want to do that to this net! I think all of my chargers have the "weed chopper" also. So would I have to get another charger? ...and will a high powered charger connected to regular wire kill a chicken? I would hate to do that!
@RedRidge... Is that 40" net you use?

Thanks much to you both!

I bet if you called premier they could tell you. I know others had questions and they had really great customer service.

I dont *do* electric......I put the fence up, take it down, etc but The whole hooking up the wire from fence to charger.......my best friend did it for me

I would probably burn my house down lol