Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Demosthine]

I like this idea ~ have been leaving my bucket lid on cockeyed with a couple bricks placed strategically on top. My pullets can get in the feed room through a broken board. Came in one morn after having left the lid off and one of my gals was sitting waist deep in the ff, ha!

Maybe I could secure the towel with a large rubber band...

Currently, I'm using a sheet that I just drape over the bucket. I did buy a few pillow cases from Goodwill for 49c each and plan on cutting them down to size and then sewing a cuff on them to make sure they last longer. I will probably sew an elastic band in to the cuff to ensure that it stays tight against the bucket. You can easily add in a drawstring with one of those sliding cord locks instead of sewing in the elastic, too. If it's left outside or in the hot garage, the drawstring would last longer. You can find the thin rope and cord locks at WalMart in the shopping section and probably spend less that $3 for it all.

 

[JoyfulPromise]

Hi everyone! I haven't posted on this thread in a long while, but I am so glad I kept it in my subscribed threads - I have learned a lot from just reading the posts as they are sent to my inbox!

We started soaking/fermenting feed last year after discovering this thread and reading the whole thing from the beginning!!! We have used it for several batches of Cornish X broilers that my brother has raised, as well as for our laying flock. I would greatly appreciate it if some of you could help me clarify a few things...

First, in some of Beekissed's early posts she mentioned that she just refills her feed bucket after feeding in the evening, so her feed is only soaked for 15-24 hrs max, and that was ok. But I have seen several others seem to say it has to ferment for 2-3 days to really be "fermented feed". So what is best? I am thinking it would be difficult to soak longer with the quantity of feed we are using - we have close to 50 laying hens, and currently about 20-30 young laying pullets and cockerels. My brother raises several batches of 100 Cornish X each year, and he is using 6 - 5 gallon buckets to soak by the time they are 6-7 weeks old! The reason is that we put them out in two hoop houses on grass at 4 weeks and he feeds them in PVC troughs 3 x a day, so he uses 1 bucket per hoop house (approx. 50 birds) per feeding, so he can immediately refill that bucket and have it soak/ferment for close to 24 hrs before it is used again the next day. Did you follow me there?

So, if it only soaks for 24 hrs, is it soaked, or fermented? We do use ACV in the feed buckets occasionally, and regularly in their water.

Also, about covering the buckets... I thought I read somewhere that this was an AN-aerobic ferment, so it did NOT need air, but should have a closed top. But then I read that it needs to breathe, and should not be covered tightly! What is true? We have lids on the 5 gallon buckets, but they frequently tipped/cracked open, and not closed all the way. The problem I have with this is that then we frequently get TONS of fruit flies or regular flies in and around the bucket, and it is rather annoying when scooping out the feed. Anyone else have trouble with flies?

Finally, I have been soaking our entire homemade soy-free feed, which includes the Fishmeal, Nutribalancer, and Kelp, but I am kind-of liking the idea to only soak the grains and add the pre-mixed nutrients later. My only concern is that it would double the mixing work and it seems like it would be a bit tricky to figure out how much pre-mix to add each feeding. Any tips or advice?

Thanks so much to everyone for sharing their problems and solutions on this thread! Let's all keep learning together as we try to raise healthy, happy chickens!

 

[Beekissed]

I use the backslopping method, which means that my fermenting cultures are very well established in the mix and don't need to ferment from scratch and that fluid soaks into the grains as they absorb it, thus increasing the speed of total fermentation of the grains. If 8-15 hrs causes fermentation, imagine 24 hrs with an accelerated method such as mine. Trust me...it's fermented.

The fruit flies won't bother your mix or taint it, but are just a nuisance. I keep mine cracked to release gas but the fruit gnats don't bother it after the mix is fully fermented. The fruit gnats only seem attracted when the grain/feed is first added. They don't seem to be attracted to the feed when it is out in the feeder either. I haven't seen a house fly in my coop all season long and didn't last year when I had 54 CX eating this stuff....it's been bliss!

I guess that's when you know you are feeding FF, when the flies are no longer attracted to the sweet smelling, sugary grains, or the same that is coming out the backside of the chicken. My dog won't even eat the poop anymore...no good stuff left. It's all being converted and utilized by the bird instead of hitting the ground.

 

[AVintageLife]

Hi everyone! I haven't posted on this thread in a long while, but I am so glad I kept it in my subscribed threads - I have learned a lot from just reading the posts as they are sent to my inbox!

We started soaking/fermenting feed last year after discovering this thread and reading the whole thing from the beginning!!! We have used it for several batches of Cornish X broilers that my brother has raised, as well as for our laying flock. I would greatly appreciate it if some of you could help me clarify a few things...

First, in some of Beekissed's early posts she mentioned that she just refills her feed bucket after feeding in the evening, so her feed is only soaked for 15-24 hrs max, and that was ok. But I have seen several others seem to say it has to ferment for 2-3 days to really be "fermented feed". So what is best? I am thinking it would be difficult to soak longer with the quantity of feed we are using - we have close to 50 laying hens, and currently about 20-30 young laying pullets and cockerels. My brother raises several batches of 100 Cornish X each year, and he is using 6 - 5 gallon buckets to soak by the time they are 6-7 weeks old! The reason is that we put them out in two hoop houses on grass at 4 weeks and he feeds them in PVC troughs 3 x a day, so he uses 1 bucket per hoop house (approx. 50 birds) per feeding, so he can immediately refill that bucket and have it soak/ferment for close to 24 hrs before it is used again the next day. Did you follow me there?

So, if it only soaks for 24 hrs, is it soaked, or fermented? We do use ACV in the feed buckets occasionally, and regularly in their water.

Also, about covering the buckets... I thought I read somewhere that this was an AN-aerobic ferment, so it did NOT need air, but should have a closed top. But then I read that it needs to breathe, and should not be covered tightly! What is true? We have lids on the 5 gallon buckets, but they frequently tipped/cracked open, and not closed all the way. The problem I have with this is that then we frequently get TONS of fruit flies or regular flies in and around the bucket, and it is rather annoying when scooping out the feed. Anyone else have trouble with flies?

Finally, I have been soaking our entire homemade soy-free feed, which includes the Fishmeal, Nutribalancer, and Kelp, but I am kind-of liking the idea to only soak the grains and add the pre-mixed nutrients later. My only concern is that it would double the mixing work and it seems like it would be a bit tricky to figure out how much pre-mix to add each feeding. Any tips or advice?

Thanks so much to everyone for sharing their problems and solutions on this thread! Let's all keep learning together as we try to raise healthy, happy chickens!

I'm interested in adding fishmeal and kelp to my FF. Where do you find yours?

 

[RedRidge]

Hi everyone! I haven't posted on this thread in a long while, but I am so glad I kept it in my subscribed threads - I have learned a lot from just reading the posts as they are sent to my inbox!

We started soaking/fermenting feed last year after discovering this thread and reading the whole thing from the beginning!!! We have used it for several batches of Cornish X broilers that my brother has raised, as well as for our laying flock. I would greatly appreciate it if some of you could help me clarify a few things...

First, in some of Beekissed's early posts she mentioned that she just refills her feed bucket after feeding in the evening, so her feed is only soaked for 15-24 hrs max, and that was ok. But I have seen several others seem to say it has to ferment for 2-3 days to really be "fermented feed". So what is best? I am thinking it would be difficult to soak longer with the quantity of feed we are using - we have close to 50 laying hens, and currently about 20-30 young laying pullets and cockerels. My brother raises several batches of 100 Cornish X each year, and he is using 6 - 5 gallon buckets to soak by the time they are 6-7 weeks old! The reason is that we put them out in two hoop houses on grass at 4 weeks and he feeds them in PVC troughs 3 x a day, so he uses 1 bucket per hoop house (approx. 50 birds) per feeding, so he can immediately refill that bucket and have it soak/ferment for close to 24 hrs before it is used again the next day. Did you follow me there?

So, if it only soaks for 24 hrs, is it soaked, or fermented? We do use ACV in the feed buckets occasionally, and regularly in their water.

Also, about covering the buckets... I thought I read somewhere that this was an AN-aerobic ferment, so it did NOT need air, but should have a closed top. But then I read that it needs to breathe, and should not be covered tightly! What is true? We have lids on the 5 gallon buckets, but they frequently tipped/cracked open, and not closed all the way. The problem I have with this is that then we frequently get TONS of fruit flies or regular flies in and around the bucket, and it is rather annoying when scooping out the feed. Anyone else have trouble with flies?

Finally, I have been soaking our entire homemade soy-free feed, which includes the Fishmeal, Nutribalancer, and Kelp, but I am kind-of liking the idea to only soak the grains and add the pre-mixed nutrients later. My only concern is that it would double the mixing work and it seems like it would be a bit tricky to figure out how much pre-mix to add each feeding. Any tips or advice?

Thanks so much to everyone for sharing their problems and solutions on this thread! Let's all keep learning together as we try to raise healthy, happy chickens!

For length of soak/ferment... I always keep "double or more" of the grains I use each day in each bucket... and after straining return all LAB/liquid.
So... after taking out what I need each day, I add the dry equivalent of that amount back in... if I take out 4.5 lbs of wet, I add back 2 lbs of dry...
So... the ferment is ongoing. I DO stir prior to using each day to make sure everything is mixed well.

Covering... you actually don't want lacto to have air, but... if you keep at least an inch of water over the top of the grains at all times, no air will get to the grains.
I simply use old hand towels to cover each of my buckets... the "water on top" prevents air from getting to the grains so what I get is ferment and not mold. If you ever forget to add enough water, you will likely notice mold on top the next day.

My ration is also ground and mixed by me and is soy-free and gmo free. I ferment ONLY the grains... keep a chart on the wall for how much "premix" to add each day. If you have chicks it's moving target as they grow, so I have a large excel spreadsheet that calculates it all for me. My alfalfa, nutribalancer, fish meal, etc are mixed in a bucket (10 lbs at a time)... and my grains are mixed 40 lbs at a time after grinding in an old wheelbarrow or an old stainless dairy sink. After establishing ratios for "your" ration, the spreadsheet takes the guesswork out of everything so I can feed in my sleep. LOL I use the same grain part of the ration for layers and chicks when I have both and simply keep two buckets of premix for each management group... fish meal for chicks... limestone for layers... etc.
Fermenting fish meal is a VERY smelly proposition, not to mention unnecessary... so only grains get fermented... I have small hammermill and crack any corn and peas and then add the oats and mix...

Hope this helps!

 

[RedRidge]

I've been brainstorming about a way to feed FF in my chicken tractor and thought I'd share.
Most of mine free range, but I use my tractor periodically, especially for roosters who I want to move around without letting loose.
My original tractor design had everything "hanging" - both water and feeder - so that when we moved it daily there was nothing on the ground to drag.
Well feeding FF was a little more of a challenge, so I used an old bucket lid with wires to create an FF feeder to hang from the feeder chain in the tractor.
Thought this might be useful to others so thought I'd share...

 

[Beekissed]

I don't strain mine, nor do I keep it covered in water. Any film on top each day is stirred into the mix. My fermented fluids are stored in the reservoir created by stacking two buckets, so they rise into the feed mix when fresh water is added at the top. I ferment layer mash and whole grains and I add enough each time that I don't get to the bottom of the bucket for 4-5 days, so the mix is fully fermented and deepening into that all those days. I don't empty the bucket entirely but add new feed when there is about a day's worth of feed still in the bottom of the bucket.

Here's about the level of water I use and even a little lower.....

 

[RedRidge]

I'm interested in adding fishmeal and kelp to my FF. Where do you find yours

Any feed store, Tractor Supply or Farmer's Co-op can order these ingredients for you.
The only thing I don't get locally is my kelp... We have a group of several of us who order it in bulk once a year directly.

I rarely feed kelp (although I do keep it on hand for the frozen winter months), because we can forage 10 months out of the year here.
But you can order it online pretty easily. I'd contact a local feed store to see if they can get you a bag as that would likely be less expensive.

Fish meal I only feed in the spring/summer when I have chicks... They need more protein and while the BSF I feed to the adults have plenty of protein, the amount of calcium they have is way to high to feed much to chicks. Although I do feed the chicks "some" BSF simply because they love them and it's hysterical to watch them play keep away.

 

[JoyfulPromise]

Wow, thank you for the helpful replies Beekissed, and RedRidge!

Part of our problem may be that we are doing sort of a mixture of your two soaking methods - I don't cover our feed with water, it looks more like Beekissed's bucket in consistency, but I also don't use the two bucket method. We always leave some feed/liquid in the buckets when we feed it out, and then add new dry feed for the next day and just add enough water to make a pretty runny soupy consistency - by the next day it will be a sloppy oatmeal consistency that we scoop out and feed. Sometimes it is a bit thicker and drier than other times, depending on how well we judged the "soupy-ness" of it the day before. Even if we added more water though, there always seem to be a layer of oats, or certain grains that float on the top, so they wouldn't stay under water entirely.

Beekissed - your picture looks more like the fermented scratch mix that we made for part of the broiler feed this last time. Do you have any fishmeal or other powders in with your grains? That may be part of our fly problem... maybe we will have to figure out how to add it later like RedRidge suggested...

 

[ramblinH]

This recent discussion has been very helpful in clearing up some things for me ~ thanks for everyone's input!

I got a good ferment on my 1st batch with organic starter but am having a harder time with their grower feed. Not mixing my own yet but hoping to eventually.

The thing with this grower (again, organic) is that peas are the main ingredient and smells awful but the chicks like it and have not had probs with any bugs. So I'm wondering if the pea smell is masking the good ferment?

I'm thinking I may just dry feed the remainder & get another brand or maybe it's time for me to try my hand at blending my own?

Kendra

PS ~ Brand is Magill Ranch's Cascade Grower. Reading through the ingredients, this stuff has a host of good stuff ~ looks like their version of a nutri-balance and even several strains of fermented probiotics...