Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Brada Puhi]

I started FF 2 days ago and I've had 3 hens die since then...not saying that that is the reason. But I'm going to treat with corid and I was wondering if I should continue the FF or stop? Also one of the dead hens seemed to have sour crop. Could FF cause that?

Hi Deb,

How are you making your FF? Are you doing it anaerobically? Oxygen let's the bad bacteria in. Possibly you had a bad batch? Not sure if a bad batch would work that fast.

Check you later, Puhi

 

[3 NH reds]

Well I have been fermenting cracked corn outside in the summer heat. It has the added bonus of random protein like slugs, wasps, moths but yesterday I had a mouse. Even though the liquid level was low it still didn't make it, I think it passed out in the sour mash and that was that, bad night at the bar

So I gave marinade mouse to my layers and the Orp was running in circles trying to keep away from the others.

 

[Triple Willow]

Thanks again to those who did help with my question concerning coccidiosis. I don't know where I found this in my search but here is some good information for anyone wanting to know about coccidiosis. I recommend all "newbies" such as myself read it so you will know about it in advance before you ever have to deal with it. Hopefully you won't.
https://attra.ncat.org/publication.html?pubsrch=coccidiosis&freeonly=all

 

[Debs55]

Hi Deb,

How are you making your FF?  Are you doing it anaerobically?  Oxygen let's the bad bacteria in.  Possibly you had a bad batch?  Not sure if a bad batch would work that fast.

Check you later, Puhi

I did it in a bucket with a towel over it with starter grower, scratch, water and ACV. I'm too scared to use it again now I think

 

[armorfirelady]

I've never had sick birds or birds die from FF even when I first started. It's all they eat well in addition to foraging. They eat very little from spring to fall.

I think the deaths would be more likely attributed to an illness in the flock than FF. did you change anything in their coop? Add new hens? Or if they free range maybe they got into something?

 

[Debs55]

I'm not sayin it was the FF it's just that they died so quickly after starting it that I'm just kind of scared to use it. I've added no new chickens and changed nothing. I'm treating for coccidia right now

 

[Beekissed]

Yep...on every forum I've been reading this summer, birds are dying like flies from coccidiosis...it's quick and most don't have much warning. The very hot, very wet conditions this year has bred an epidemic of cocci in the soils.

MOST of the people reporting these deaths are not using FF...actually..this is the first one reported that I've seen and it was immediately after starting the FF, so I'm thinking this was already present and doing it's dirty work in bird's system.

Purely coincidental that the feed was changed at that time, I'm thinking...this is happening all over in the past few months. Feeding fermented feeds would actually prevent the occurrence of cocci rather than bring it on, as it creates an acid environment in the intestines, increases nutrient absorption and increases electrolyte retention.


Quote:

 

[Beekissed]

I started FF 2 days ago and I've had 3 hens die since then...not saying that that is the reason. But I'm going to treat with corid and I was wondering if I should continue the FF or stop? Also one of the dead hens seemed to have sour crop. Could FF cause that?

She died from sour crop or the contents of her crop smelled sour after you found her dead? If the former, that's different and I've not seen anyone report sour crop from feeding FF. If the latter, then it's likely she died with a crop full of FF and it smells like...FF.

As stated before, if you study on the life cycle of the cocci, you will find that the coccidiosis was very likely already present in your animals prior to feeding the FF and the feed had nothing to do with it. Feeding wet feeds is not commonly listed as a source of the infection...


Quote:

I would most definitely continue to feed the FF...it sounds like your flock really needs it. I would also be checking out how wet the soils or bedding on which they are living currently are.

 

[Beekissed]

If one spends a little time with a search engine and doesn't mind swimming through many pages of scientific jargon, you can find a lot of information on how great lactobacillus is for the prevention of coccidiosis in poultry. Here is just one such study but there are more and more varied studies done on cocciosis and probiotics of lactobacillus as a preventative.


Quote:

Source

Department of Animal and Avian Sciences, University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland 20742, USA.

Abstract

The effect of feeding a Lactobacillus-based probiotic on intestinal intraepithelial lymphocyte (IEL) subpopulations and subsequent protection against coccidiosis was investigated in broiler chickens. Day-old male broilers were fed standard rations without control (CONT) or with a commercial probiotic (PROB) Primalac. Differences in IEL subpopulations were assessed by flow cytometry at 21 d postprobiotic treatment. At 25 d of age, a group of randomly selected birds from each diet was inoculated orally with 10,000 (per bird) sporulated oocysts of Eimeria acervulina and kept on the same diets. Fecal material, sera, and intestinal washes were collected 10 d postchallenge with E. acervulina. Birds on the PROB diet had more IEL expressing the surface markers CD3, CD4, CD8, and alphabetaTCR than those of the CONT diet. The probiotic-fed chickens produced less oocysts (P < 0.0001) compared to the untreated, control group (368 x 10(6) in CONT vs. 89 x 10(6) in PROB). The interferon-gamma levels in both serum and intestinal secretions were not significantly different between the two groups. However, CONT group showed higher antibody levels against a recombinant coccidial antigen in the intestinal secretions than the PROB group. No significant difference was found in serum antibody levels against the same antigen. These results dearly indicate that the probiotic bacteria impacted the local immune response as characterized by altered IEL subpopulations and increased the birds' resistance to E. acervulina as reflected by reduced oocyst shedding.

And this study was done with a dried probiotic feed mix, not a living, active lactobacilli throughout the feed in large numbers as it is in the FF...imagine how much better the fermented feed is than the probios mixed by a pharmacy.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Yep...on every forum I've been reading this summer, birds are dying like flies from coccidiosis...it's quick and most don't have much warning. The very hot, very wet conditions this year has bred an epidemic of cocci in the soils.

MOST of the people reporting these deaths are not using FF...actually..this is the first one reported that I've seen and it was immediately after starting the FF, so I'm thinking this was already present and doing it's dirty work in bird's system.

Purely coincidental that the feed was changed at that time, I'm thinking...this is happening all over in the past few months. Feeding fermented feeds would actually prevent the occurrence of cocci rather than bring it on, as it creates an acid environment in the intestines, increases nutrient absorption and increases electrolyte retention.

I think so to Bee. I don't think it was the FF at all.