Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Windy Bay Farm]

I am by no means an expert, but usually between 18-24 weeks.  Just prior to beginning to lay, their combs and wattles will get really red, and when you reach down to as though to pick them up, you may see them squat in anticipation of a rooster.  You may also see them start having interest in the nesting box, sometimes even trying it out.  You may find their first eggs in a variety of places, however, before they get the hang of.  I found one once on top of a bag of mulch that was sitting upright and leaning against a fence!  They usually figure it out pretty quickly, however.

The decreasing daylight going into the fall can delay it, though.  However, from some things I have read, the older they are when they start laying. the more the pullet weighs, and the bigger their eggs will eventually be....there was some study I read about it basically saying not to worry if they don't lay early, because the upside is larger eggs when they do.

I had a black copper marans late spring pullet who didn't start laying until the following February, and her first egg was 59 grams....a large egg.  She now consistently lays extra large to jumbo eggs! I had a Barred Rock who laid early, and to this day she lays a small egg.  Perhaps it is a coincidence, perhaps not.

It is so hard not to get impatient with them, though.

Thanks, BC ! A few of them are definitely doing the squatting thing when I approach them or hover over them so that seems to be a good sign. I placed a couple of golf balls in each nest and I have noticed that they have been moved around so someone must be nosey about the nests ! All appear to be signs of pending laying I guess. Thanks for the advice !

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

My little flock started laying around 16 or 17 weeks. I have 5 different breeds, and it was in November they started. They laid the same summer and winter, just recently slacked off for molt. I had 10 layers and lost one pretty quick to a hawk, so 9, only once got 9 eggs, mostly 7 or 8 from med large to jumbo. 

Walt

Thanks, Walt ! I'm keeping an eye out because I believe from what others have told me that they should start laying any day now.

 

[tcmstalcup]

I'll start this by saying I always have herding breeds. I have a few old hens that won't tolerate bad behavior from a dog. My Cooper went in the coop the first time and got flogged but good by a grumpy old hen when he was about 8 mths old. He sat outside the open run and whined for a bit and decided to try again with similar results. My dogs do not mess with chickens. My mini aussie only tries to bring the OEGB's to me. Herding little chickens is quite a challenge!!

 

[KelsiNS]

Okay-the math is lost on me. My chickens are 9 and 10 weeks and i feed them 20 cups of feed a day. Well, turns out my grower feed is pelleted and my crossbeak cant eat it. I figure fermented feed is the way to go.

So, if i fill a 5 gallon bucket using the strainer method with the pellets and a good glug of ACV, how much water do i use? Lid on or off? How often should i add to it, and does the 20 cup feed measure still apply?

This will hopefully stretch the 100lbs we have since the hubs just got laid off.

 

[Beekissed]

It does work better if a person has a more willing to please type breed. I seem attracted to that kind of dog, so it seems that's the kind of dogs I keep, consequently, they are easier to train for all aspects of social life with humans and other animals. For me, Labs and lab mixes have been the Cadillac of family and stock dogs due to that ease of training and their willingness to work and please the pack leader.

I think most people choose a dog that looks cute or a breed they've always liked the look of, so they choose breeds that may or may not be suitable for co-habitation with livestock. One time I obtained some pups that were not suitable for the social aspects of living with livestock and was the first time I had chickens maimed by one of my own dogs. They were given every opportunity to learn, to obey, to live in harmony with the stock and then they were ended due to their unsuitable nature.

I know that most people will not part with a pet over chickens or other livestock, but that's where goals collide it seems. It's very hard to have one's cake and also eat it up. I have dogs to add to my life, the same as chickens. When any one type of animal in my life starts to take away from my life and destroy the things I value most, they are then no longer included in that life. Trying to force incompatible breeds into a farming type life is always fraught with difficulty...I imagine it takes stronger fences and more vigilant behaviors on the part of the human and death of livestock in the meanwhile. Not my idea of peaceful existence, but many are willing to go through the stress of that type situation.

Same with chickens...if they take away from the peace in my life, they are then ended. A peaceful, harmonious life is the goal..at least it's MY goal. If a person wants to continue to have chickens, when choosing the next breed for the family, that might be something to consider so as to make the whole experience of life with animals a more peaceful time.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

This is a Husky of some sort, right? I doubt the shock collar will work if she is very motivated. Siberians and Alaskan Malamutes are really motivated to kill little animals. I've watched professional field trial trainers shocking Labs and not getting them off a bad line when the dog insists. Herding and retrieving are hunting behaviors, driven by prey drive.

If your dog does respect an electric shock, you can do things like set up an invisible fence around where the chickens are. It works by emitting a radio frequency that is picked up when the collar gets close and triggers the shock in the collar. You can also get a unit that is a single emitter and put it in the middle of the chicken run. They were designed for inside houses, so you could have dog-free areas.

Don't be too surprised if the shock collar fails. I have a little Dachshund who, like many hounds, loved to run away and follow her nose. I set up an invisible fence around my property. She would go right through it if she was very motivated to leave. I had it set up for the maximum width and she would just steal herself to the pain and take it. Running free was a bigger reward than a two second burn was a detriment.

My own solution has been to never let the dogs out unsupervised and to make sure the really irresistible chickens, the small fluffy fluttering Silkies are behind a fence. If I'm around, they leave the free ranging large fowl Ameraucanas alone.

Nukka responds surprisingly well to negative reinforcement combined with positive reinforcement at the same time. Either on their own is useless when trying to stop her from doing something. This is how I taught her not to attack rabbits in the house, her "leave it" command and how not to go into the chicken pen. She will hesitate to go into the chicken pen when it's open even if I am not there. I keep the chickens in their pen and the rabbits in their cages almost all the time and am pretty careful when I let them out to make sure there's no way the dogs could get mixed up with them... It is those rare occasions when I screw up or an animal decides it wants out badly enough that things go wrong.

So basically there's NO point to an electric fence or a localized thing because she already respects the pen. I have a VERY thin plastic deer netting between her and the birds and she could kill them any time I turned my back if she did not, and yet I can leave her free access to the yard for hours and hours unsupervised and nothing happens. I don't need to stop her from getting into the pen... I just need something that will stop her in her tracks when an animal is out and she wants it just long enough for her to pay attention to her recall and come get whatever treat I have for her. (I have treats EVERYWHERE so they're never more than seconds away.) Once I have her focus broken from chasing the animal she listens and I think the shock collar may do just that.

Now what would be super cool would be a very shot-range transmitter to a shock collar that the birds and bunnies could wear on a collar of their own or something that would shock her if she got within like three feet of them. They have trained wolf packs away from cattle using things like that. But without that, a normal shock collar and some VERY closely monitored training sessions will have to suffice.

Someday we will live where we have more space and the dogs will have a huge pen to themselves with no chickens or rabbits and it won't matter.

 

[wlhtx]

It's a little off this threads topic, but can anyone tell me at what age the girls should stay laying ? I have some RIR's, BR's and a couple black sex links. They're about 19 weeks now.

I have all of these. My RIRs are 23 weeks, BRs and Black Sex-links are 31 weeks. 1 of the BSLs and 1 of the BRs laid a handful of eggs back in late July and then stopped. I have gotten nothing so far from the others. So mine are definitely late starters! I'm just hoping that it holds true that this means they will lay longer once they DO get started.

Still, 31 weeks for a pullet with no starting in sight is HARD on the patience... DH swears they are defective. And, frankly, I may lose it if I have to wait all the way until next spring for them to start providing me with eggs... Ugh!

 

[jajeanpierre]

It does work better if a person has a more willing to please type breed. I seem attracted to that kind of dog, so it seems that's the kind of dogs I keep, consequently, they are easier to train for all aspects of social life with humans and other animals. For me, Labs and lab mixes have been the Cadillac of family and stock dogs due to that ease of training and their willingness to work and please the pack leader.

I think most people choose a dog that looks cute or a breed they've always liked the look of, so they choose breeds that may or may not be suitable for co-habitation with livestock. One time I obtained some pups that were not suitable for the social aspects of living with livestock and was the first time I had chickens maimed by one of my own dogs. They were given every opportunity to learn, to obey, to live in harmony with the stock and then they were ended due to their unsuitable nature.

I know that most people will not part with a pet over chickens or other livestock, but that's where goals collide it seems. It's very hard to have one's cake and also eat it up. I have dogs to add to my life, the same as chickens. When any one type of animal in my life starts to take away from my life and destroy the things I value most, they are then no longer included in that life. Trying to force incompatible breeds into a farming type life is always fraught with difficulty...I imagine it takes stronger fences and more vigilant behaviors on the part of the human and death of livestock in the meanwhile. Not my idea of peaceful existence, but many are willing to go through the stress of that type situation.

Same with chickens...if they take away from the peace in my life, they are then ended. A peaceful, harmonious life is the goal..at least it's MY goal. If a person wants to continue to have chickens, when choosing the next breed for the family, that might be something to consider so as to make the whole experience of life with animals a more peaceful time.

Very wise post, BeeKissed.

Breeds have been developed over the years for certain traits. While some of these traits are stronger or weaker in individuals of a breed, everyone needs to know what the breed was bred for and why they came about.

For example, a herding breed has been developed with a prey drive (herding behavior of chasing) plus a willingness to respond to human direction. Retrievers also have prey drive (to chase and retrieve) but have been selected to not damage the bird they bring back. Hounds have been developed to chase down their prey and kill it when they get to it. They work without human direction. Dachsunds have been bred to go down a hole and face a badger and kill it. Farmers dig them out, which is why they are supposed to make a lot of noise--the farmer needs to know where to dig to get the dog out. Knowing the history of the breed will give you a better idea of how suitable they likely are for having around livestock.

A livestock guard dog should have have no prey drive. They simply guard. They don't chase or herd.

I've been surprised that my mongrel pit bull is just fine with the chickens. My house is chaos because of my dogs but many are old and I'll just let them live out their lives and manage the situation. Any health problems, though, and it is a one-way trip to the vet's.

 

[armorfirelady]

Quote:
My older hens I got last May and didnt start laying till mid December. Very frustrating but when you see that first egg it is very exciting. And they laid straight through the winter as well

 

[Triple Willow]

I have all of these. My RIRs are 23 weeks, BRs and Black Sex-links are 31 weeks. 1 of the BSLs and 1 of the BRs laid a handful of eggs back in late July and then stopped. I have gotten nothing so far from the others. So mine are definitely late starters! I'm just hoping that it holds true that this means they will lay longer once they DO get started.

Still, 31 weeks for a pullet with no starting in sight is HARD on the patience... DH swears they are defective. And, frankly, I may lose it if I have to wait all the way until next spring for them to start providing me with eggs... Ugh!

Is it possible you might have an egg theif? Maybe a snake, dog, etc?