Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Kassaundra]

So, lost a pullet 2 days ago. Did a necropsy on the refridgerated body last night. Found large undigested fish meat pieces in her crop. Sour crop maybe? Couldn't find anything that looked like grit in there. Just soupy. Only thing that didn't look 'right' to me other than the mite issue that surfaced last week.

Anyone ever have a chicken that wouldn't eat grit? Guess she pulled herself out of the gene pool... Oh well. Her sister, the other Lav Orp, seems about as happy and chipper as a bird should be, so...

Anyway. Just noodling it over in my head and staring at my chickens wondering if there's anything else I'm missing. They have access to all sorts of grit sizes.

When I have necropsied or processed chickens I have always found the grit in the gizzard not the crop.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I am sorry this happened. It happens all too often. WHen I was training my rotties, I talked alot to the trainers, trying to learning everything to be a good dog owner.

As I was preg at the time I asked about when to trust a dog with my kids. "WHen he is 16."A deadpan answer. SHe meant, never leave a dog alone with a child less than 16 years old. I guarded my dogs from children, even my own.

My kids learned to work with my dogs once they were taller than the dogs-- and started with the lab who was a moosh. He would lay down when he had enough. ANd NOT budge. lol

ANd to this day, I don't let my kids approach dogs I don't know, no matter what the owner says.

 

[AletaG]

Sorry to hear that Aleta. I don't know but sounds like sour crop like you said. Did her gizzard have much grit in it?
I wonder how some baking soda in the drinking water would work for sour crop?

When I have necropsied or processed chickens I have always found the grit in the gizzard not the crop.

Hmmm. Well, too late to go back and dig in there again... I forgot to mention that the last time they ate fish was over a week ago. Boy did it stink. The crop, I mean. I need to find that anatomy drawing I downloaded again...

 

[Angelicisi]

Yay! I'm awaiting eggs, its torture lol
Hahaha @ yellow egg! I got all excited

Look at this yellow egg that one of my chickens layed!!!

Juuuust kidding! -camera did that somehow. LOL Okay, make fun of me but I am sooo excited... One of my younger group has layed their first egg! It was either the ancona or a leghorn - leghorn I bet. They are 21 weeks old today. It is a pretty big first egg. It took my australorps and that crew a while to get the egg size uniform. This egg is almost as big as one of their eggs now.

...where's that Rose Marie, she will understand greenhorn excitement over an egg. lol

 

[beverly evans]

Look at this yellow egg that one of my chickens layed!!!



Juuuust kidding! -camera did that somehow. LOL Okay, make fun of me but I am sooo excited... One of my younger group has layed their first egg!

It was either the ancona or a leghorn - leghorn I bet. They are 21 weeks old today. It is a pretty big first egg. It took my australorps and that crew a while to get the egg size uniform. This egg is almost as big as one of their eggs now.


...where's that Rose Marie, she will understand greenhorn excitement over an egg. lol

So the yellow egg is not yellow, but what about the other foto? Is that a gray egg next top the Maran egg? : )

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Happened to my neice-- bitten by a dog while walking her bike. Terrible scar on her leg. Parents putthe money aside to pay for most of her college education. IT was apparently a lot of money. Dogs should not be running loose.

I'd say it was the border collie genetics...

They have been listed as the most intelligent breed. My sis has always kept pits and they are dumber than dirt, kill each other, eat the cats...you name it, they cannot be controlled or left on their own for any length of time without doing something horrible, either to each other, the other animals or the property. And, no, these dogs were never used in fighting...babied, treated like children, well socialized to humans and other animals... up to a certain age and then have to be isolated behind strong barriers or they eat one another. She's had several from all different sources and bloodlines die from killing one another, several cats killed from that....but..she just keeps getting that breed like it's something special.

I'm sure there are good ones out there but I've seen none of them in all my days and I'm old, so I'd say they are a rarity.

I'm hesitant to add a new dog into our lives, I want one, need one, and yet there are so many badly bred dogs out there.

Ihave had good luck in the past buying directly from good breeders recommended by other breeders; or buying from a woman that had her pups temperment tested by a reknown judge of that breed. GOt my moneys worth on both dogs.

Genetics plays a huge part in any breed of dog. I have had several Dobermans. All were nothing but big babies that loved everybody EXCEPT two that happened to be brother and sister. They were perfectly fine with me and my mom but anybody else, look out! They were all raised by me from around 8 weeks old, nothing different with those two. That line was just nasty.

On another note, these is a guy that had two dogs (lab/shepherd looking mixes) that were little angels at his house, even with small kids and cats. He started letting them run loose. He was warned that the neighbor had goats. His reply, "well if they cause a problem let me know". Less than two weeks later neighbor walked out about noon one day to a total blood bath, goats throats ripped out. The dogs were still there and just hanging out like they didnt do a thing in the world wrong. Moral of the story, just because they are sooo sweet and little angels at the owner's house, that doesn't mean that they won't be a killer next door. They have a mind of their own!

They are dogs. That simple.

Mine would tryto kill my cats, and did kill the chickens , that entered their run, a huge 100 x 50 area fenced with 6 foot picket fence. In the house, or in the yard, they didn't care a hoot about the cats, or the chicks and chickens. Just walk up to sniff and walk on. House was neutral ground, even the tresspassing mice were give a pass by the cats!!! ((( rolls eyes)) Cats could curl up with a dog in the house. However the run was the territory of the dogs-- and that is why no one entered except the human family. We we boss. We demanded the position.

When my pups were fed, I took their food dishes away regularly. They were expected to understand I am boss dog and I can take the food way with out complaint. I played simple games with them, giving a command they knew well, or one they were working on. I was not trying to make my dog fail but rather help him or her succeed. Then the dog got the bowl back, BUT eventually had to wait to eat again until I gave the ok. Even DH participated, as awayof gaining respect and teaching the dogs that this applies to other people not just me. Trainers helped withthis too.

WHen my kids came on the scene, I needed my dogs to accept that kids might be messing with their food dishes and it was ok, not a time to guard the food. As my kids were old enough, they carried the food dishes, and told the dogs the commands, put the dish down and ppicked it up again. THen bowl down and released the dog to eat. As they got older, I could trust the kids and the dogs, and the kids got the job of feeding the dogs.

Dogs need to be taught the behaviors we want. Chasing can be a natural instinct depending on the breed. It is a dog thing.

I love having the big run for the dogs. Protects my dogs.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: You had me fooled for amoment!! THe first yellow egg I have ever seen!!! lol Looks pretty even if it is a trick of the light!!

 

[Beekissed]

So, lost a pullet 2 days ago. Did a necropsy on the refridgerated body last night. Found large undigested fish meat pieces in her crop. Sour crop maybe? Couldn't find anything that looked like grit in there. Just soupy. Only thing that didn't look 'right' to me other than the mite issue that surfaced last week.

Anyone ever have a chicken that wouldn't eat grit? Guess she pulled herself out of the gene pool... Oh well. Her sister, the other Lav Orp, seems about as happy and chipper as a bird should be, so...

Anyway. Just noodling it over in my head and staring at my chickens wondering if there's anything else I'm missing. They have access to all sorts of grit sizes.

I'm thinking botulism. Had the same thing happen to a rooster here from the cheap meats group. Let them out of the pen on processing day and had seen both him and BUD standing on the gut pile over in the woods, eating whatever. The very next day that other rooster was lying down and didn't get up when I approached. I picked him up and put him on his feet and he kind of staggered around, took a few steps and seemed disoriented. I just watched him all day and he just kept lying around or standing around. Later on I approached him and the blue bottle flies were all over his body, when I stood him up that time he was wobbly and his skin was very hot. His crop was very soft and a little inflated looking but not much.

I took him over to the woods and turned him upside down and milked that crop and brown liquid poured out, stunk to high heavens like rotten meat and then a large piece of trachea came out and another string of gut material. Then I knew. The anaerobic conditions inside that crop, combined with meat and gut contents had caused botulism to grow..and it can grow quickly from everything I found on it. The toxins released by it's metabolism affect the nervous system and that was why the bird's equilibrium was affected, I can only presume. I killed him right away and disposed of him further out in the woods. BUD had eaten from the gut pile as well but seemed no worse for wear, so I'm thinking that contents of the other roo's crop was too long and sinewy to advance into the proventriculus~or second crop~ and then into the gizzard, causing crop stasis and the resulting bacterial growth.

The large meat/tissue fragments seemed to be the culprit. My other birds had eaten chicken parts all morning, though they were soft organs like livers, fat, testicles, etc. and none of them had actually sampled from the gut pile except BUD...and I don't know that mere botulism could kill BUD, the unchicken.

Hmmm. Well, too late to go back and dig in there again... I forgot to mention that the last time they ate fish was over a week ago. Boy did it stink. The crop, I mean. I need to find that anatomy drawing I downloaded again...

I'd say those pieces might have been too big to advance from the crop to the second crop and into the gizzard and might have caused an infection there. The only place they will have grit is in the gizzard, so I'm thinking your large pieces of fish were the problem.

 

[colburg]

I have a question for you guys. When you kill your birds and rest them, how do you rest them- in bags, etc? Will sitting in water work or what? The roosters (Australorps) I killed a few months ago turned out tough. They were about 20 weeks old, rested about 3-4 days sitting in bowls of water. Maybe 20 weeks is too long? They tasted real gamey, to me just like squirrel or rabbit.

TW, from everything I've read on the Heritage Thread, 20wks is about right for butchering


All we've done is vaccuum seal, or zip lock, our chickens and rest them over night in the fridge, then they go in the freezer. All birds have been either CX or 25wo cockerels. We've never had a problem. Except for one 14 month old cock that we forgot to label. Grilled him up and boy was that skin tough. The meat was OK, though by far the toughest of anything we've raised. I felt bad because the girls(2 and 5yo) were complaining about the tough skin and I told them to buck up. Even the dogs chewed on it like it was a strip of leather.

I've seen where many people brine the chickens to add flavor and help soften them. I've never done it, but we're going to try one next time we butcher.

 

[Beekissed]

I think, if you are going to soak in water that adding salt to it is usually advisable, as salt follows a concentration gradient...less salt in the water, the more salt leaches out of the meat. The more salt in the water, the more salt stays in the meat. The salt also helps to break down tissue fibers. We've never brined chicken, just squirrel. I just rest mine and I don't bake or broil DP birds, but just use them in soups or marinate them for a slow BBQ.