Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[hellbender]

It's really not bad. I use a BB gun to dispatch my rabbits. I put it right at the back of the head, just below where the ears meet, pointed toward the nose. Only takes one shot, they usually go rigid and then might do a couple small kicks or a twitch, but I haven't seen any flopping around. I'm one of those wussies that can never bring myself to wring a neck. I'm a big girl, and I always worry I'll rip their head off.

(was an army MP)

To kick in on the natural feeds vs processed feeds - I use pellets and local hay. One, I'd much rather spend my free time doing things other than dealing with planning/growing/harvesting/storing natural feeds (just a matter of personal preference, I have nothing against people who want to do so), and two Pfau mills is just 3 miles from my home. If I can get 50 pounds of local high quality 17% rabbit pellets with no corn for $12, why rock that boat?
http://pfaufeeds1.drupalgardens.com/products/heritage-blend-rabbit-pellets
A lot of times I go to pick up feed, and it's been made THAT day. Florida whites aren't very large animals, and pellets are the best way I've found to get them to gain consistently. I just don't have the time, space, or patience to have to have fryers around for three times as long to get the necessary weight gains out of them. I do give my breeders the occasional handful of dandelion greens from the yard, but that's it as far as fresh stuff goes. I've considered adding fodder, but don't want to make more work for myself than I need to and also don't want to dilute the nutrition of the pellets.

But this is just me, and everyone's situation is different. I'm one woman, and I do every task on this homestead. Housekeeper, cook, repairman, guard, etc. My husband is handicapped, and his help pretty much ends with his paycheck that comes in every two weeks. Can't even take out a bag of trash. So my time is so, SO precious to me. Pellets and hay are way easier, and work well for me.

I'm very interested in the experiments though, and hope anyone trying something out of the "norm" will share their findings with all of us - both short term and long term.

 

[Angelicisi]

My rabbits get greens from my garden, bananas from our tree and I haven't had a sick, dead or runny poo rabbit. But their main diet is pellets. Everything from the gardens and fruit trees is organic and fed in moderation. When the range the fields they eat all sorts of greens, usually clover patches are demolished and the grasses left in tact lol butt heads

I was only wondering about the FF for rabbits because its really easy for me to do the chicken feed and the benefits showed so fast in even my already healthy birds. But - thinking about it and seeing the responses makes it clear its not a good option lol
They get a premium feed now and are just beautiful on it, I just think pellets seen so bleh. Plus I LOVE the squeaks and purrs I get walking in with a basket of fresh cut garden herbs.
I grow tons of oregano and it is so beneficial to both the chickens and rabbits. Tho green lemon basil will make them squeak at me.
The sounds this trio makes amaze me lol scared me everytime I walked in the 1st week lol now I love it. So much for quiet meat growing!

This is GREAT...for those who wish to raise rabbits in this way.  Entirely too much work for me to do with rabbits, considering what I go through to feed my chickens.

My hat is off to anyone who wants to try pulling this off feeding their rabbits this way!


Of course if you see it on the internet...it must be true...

I used the 'expensive rabbits' because of their amazing meat to bone ratio and the fact that crossing them to NZ's gives a hybrid that is almost as good in those departments without worry about bottle-necking the FW breeding stock.  Anyone who knows anything about rabbits knows that feeding youngsters leafy greens or even succulent grass in tantamount to feeding a human infant a box of EXLAX.e

GO  FOR  IT ! 

 

[hellbender]

My rabbits get greens from my garden, bananas from our tree and I haven't had a sick, dead or runny poo rabbit. But their main diet is pellets. Everything from the gardens and fruit trees is organic and fed in moderation. When the range the fields they eat all sorts of greens, usually clover patches are demolished and the grasses left in tact lol butt heads

I was only wondering about the FF for rabbits because its really easy for me to do the chicken feed and the benefits showed so fast in even my already healthy birds. But - thinking about it and seeing the responses makes it clear its not a good option lol
They get a premium feed now and are just beautiful on it, I just think pellets seen so bleh. Plus I LOVE the squeaks and purrs I get walking in with a basket of fresh cut garden herbs.
I grow tons of oregano and it is so beneficial to both the chickens and rabbits. Tho green lemon basil will make them squeak at me.
The sounds this trio makes amaze me lol scared me everytime I walked in the 1st week lol now I love it. So much for quiet meat growing!

just curious...do you feed the greens to very young rabbits? Certainly, rabbits can be fed greens from the garden...just not to the the very young. I would feel far safer feeding the greens to the chickens and straight commercial pellets to ALL of my rabbits (when I have them) because it's just not worth it to me to take chances...

Even common rabbits have value to those who own and plan to eat them. JMHO

 

[Angelicisi]

I have an 8 week old that gets herbs & mustard greens and a 2 year old that has grown up on the same diet. But these are all low numbers, I could just be lucky that in moderation I haven't killed any via food. When this trio finally starts producing good numbers the only thing ill have abundance like that to share is oregano and bananas. I read carrots are too sugary and lettuce is a nutritional waste so they usually just get an assortment of herbs and dark greens. The bananas I grow here aren't a Chiquita banana. Lower sugar, very high vitamin Bs and potassium is a bit lower than a south American banana we are used to seeing.

Lol @ common rabbits. Not sure how to take that
I went with pure NZ's from different good breeder stocks to be able to produce more good stock but still can't justify spending $400 on a rabbit for meat stock, show stock maybe. Big maybe but I don't show so I don't have those concerns thank goodness lol bit we did avoid mixes, California's and Flemish to be able to consistently produce more meat, faster. I don't have the tastebuds to distinguish a $40 rabbit from a $400 one, but I'm still learning!
Sorta like my egg adventure...NEEDED blue eggs, bought 3 EE'S before learning what an ameraucana truely was lol I started with pet lops and now have a nice set of NZ's. Lol
When I started my chicken addiction n I wish Ida known about fermented feed. I would have saved SOOOO much money from waste and my rescues would have taken half the time to be awesome again...

just curious...do you feed the greens to very young rabbits?  Certainly, rabbits can be fed greens from the garden...just not to the the very young.    I would feel far safer feeding the greens to the chickens and straight commercial pellets to ALL of my rabbits (when I have them) because it's just not worth it to me to take chances...

Even common rabbits have value to those who own and plan to eat them.  JMHO

 

[Triple Willow]

@Bitterroot... A sincere THANK YOU to you too for your service! Thanks also for sharing your personal experience on using the shot to the head. I believe that is the way I will go too when I get started. What age do you kill yours? Do you save and use the furs? They sure would make a beautiful jacket or something. It would be a shame to let them all go to waste. I agree with you on all the different methods of keeping and feeding. Whatever works for the individual is what they should do but be open to all suggestion because somebody just might have a way you haven't considered that will save you time, money, etc. There's nothing like being able to learn from experienced people and I am so thankful for that, and once in a blue moon a greenhorn might come up with some new idea worth listening to. Thanks again.

 

[hellbender]

I have an 8 week old that gets herbs & mustard greens and a 2 year old that has grown up on the same diet. But these are all low numbers, I could just be lucky that in moderation I haven't killed any via food. When this trio finally starts producing good numbers the only thing ill have abundance like that to share is oregano and bananas. I read carrots are too sugary and lettuce is a nutritional waste so they usually just get an assortment of herbs and dark greens. The bananas I grow here aren't a Chiquita banana. Lower sugar, very high vitamin Bs and potassium is a bit lower than a south American banana we are used to seeing.

Lol @ common rabbits. Not sure how to take that

I went with pure NZ's from different good breeder stocks to be able to produce more good stock but still can't justify spending $400 on a rabbit for meat stock, show stock maybe. Big maybe but I don't show so I don't have those concerns thank goodness lol bit we did avoid mixes, California's and Flemish to be able to consistently produce more meat, faster. I don't have the tastebuds to distinguish a $40 rabbit from a $400 one, but I'm still learning!
Sorta like my egg adventure...NEEDED blue eggs, bought 3 EE'S before learning what an ameraucana truely was lol I started with pet lops and now have a nice set of NZ's. Lol
When I started my chicken addiction n I wish Ida known about fermented feed. I would have saved SOOOO much money from waste and my rescues would have taken half the time to be awesome again...

I use the word'common' to indicate breeds that are rather easily acquired, not in any way meant to be disrespectful. I used NZ whites too but the Florida Whites have remarkable meat to bone ratio.

The Flemish rabbits, in my opinion carry far too much bone for them to be viable for meat production and food conversion...again...just MY opinion.

Edited to say: It wasn't so long ago that I considered the prospect of feeding FF to my chickens would be out of the question. But, upon reflection, I considered what other things had been fed with good results and decided to try it on a limited basis...and I'm glad I did.

I considered stopping for the winter but re-thought that and decided that to stop now would or could be counter productive.

Will I ever feed my entire flock FF.....I'm set up for it and it COULD happen!

 

[Angelicisi]

I was teasing
I agree Flemish have to much bone. I'm still learning. I love new ways, old ways and hate learning the hard way but I'm good at it lol

I use the word'common' to indicate breeds that are rather easily acquired, not in any way meant to be disrespectful.  I used NZ whites too but the Florida Whites have remarkable meat to bone ratio.    

The Flemish rabbits, in my opinion carry far too much bone for them to be viable for meat production and food conversion...again...just MY opinion.

Edited to say:  It wasn't so long ago that I considered the prospect of feeding FF to my chickens would be out of the question.  But, upon reflection, I considered what other things had been fed with good results and decided to try it on a limited basis...and I'm glad I did.

I considered stopping for the winter but re-thought that and decided that to stop now would or could be counter productive.

Will I ever feed my entire flock FF.....I'm set up for it and it COULD happen!

 

[Bitterroot]

@Bitterroot... A sincere THANK YOU to you too for your service!

Thanks also for sharing your personal experience on using the shot to the head. I believe that is the way I will go too when I get started. What age do you kill yours? Do you save and use the furs? They sure would make a beautiful jacket or something. It would be a shame to let them all go to waste. I agree with you on all the different methods of keeping and feeding. Whatever works for the individual is what they should do but be open to all suggestion because somebody just might have a way you haven't considered that will save you time, money, etc. There's nothing like being able to learn from experienced people and I am so thankful for that, and once in a blue moon a greenhorn might come up with some new idea worth listening to. Thanks again.

Hey, no problem. I served so others wouldn't have to. But that was a loooong time ago (20 years ago this next spring), before the world lost it's mind. I'm grateful to live in America.

I typically don't process until about 16 weeks. That's about how long it takes to get a sufficient amount of meat on these little boogers. I roll the furs and stash them in the freezer. I figure I'll get a wild hair and process a bunch of them this next year. I'd love to make a blanket out of them.

I'm incredibly tempted to try a florida white/new zealand/california cross and see how that goes. These floridas are little meat bricks, but it would be nice to get some bigger litters and a little faster growth. I've done FW x rex and that turned out okay. Had a champagne doe I would have loved to have tried, but despite breeding her several times she just never would catch.

Geez, ramblings of a sleep deprived brain ... LOL

I was teasing

I agree Flemish have to much bone. I'm still learning.

I love new ways, old ways and hate learning the hard way but I'm good at it lol

I love a curious mind. That's what keeps us young. I'd love to hear the results of an FF experiment with rabbits. Who knows, you may start a revolution! Ferment a batch of pellets and see what they think?

I hope my previous comments weren't taken as trying to squelch curiosity about natural diets. I'm tired, stressed, and the ol' brain gets away from me sometimes. I just wanted to defend the pellet junkie-types such as myself, since it sort of almost feels like at times on this forum that if you aren't growing/manufacturing all your animal feeds on your property you're somehow less of a keeper. I say the proof is in your bunnies' condition.

ETA - regarding $400 bunnies ... It's easy to price to get away with you, and I'm fairly certain he didn't say he paid $400 each for rabbits. I'll use my experience as an example. I had to drive 8 hours each way to get my initial florida white stock. For some reason, I'm always attracted to the rarest of the rare when it comes to animals. I spent a hundred bucks in gas right off the bat. The rabbits were $40-50 each. Then I had to factor in caging. So yes, it's easy to spend $400 on a few really good rabbits that you have to travel a ways to pick up. If that much money is too much for you to feel comfortable spending on rabbits, no problem. Just please don't mock those of us who see it as a good investment?

I love that such diverse opinions can get together and share and dream. I've gotten all sorts of mad scientist ideas that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten if I hadn't been hanging around here. I just need to stop letting others make me feel like my posts aren't welcomed, but I guess you have those dominant personalities on any forum. (No, I don't mean the participants on this particular thread)

Hope any of that made any sense. Need moar coffee and am procrastinating because it's snowing and I have to go outside.

 

[Beekissed]

The thing with feeding rabbits or chickens is definitely availability, cost and time. I know folks who devise complicated mixes for chickens that I would never do because I lack the money and inclination to do so and the mash at my local mill is cheaper and a full nutrition...and I only depend fully on it during the winter months. It's all in preference, money and time.

That being said, whether your animal is "common" or having an expensive pedigree it all really comes down to what you are willing to pay or do to keep that animal around to produce food or if you are selling offspring for profit. Most posting here are not dealing with high dollar animals but they value them just the same as those who are feeding $400 rabbits...I'm sure if their animals were to die from their feeding methods they would~quite obviously~stop using that method. I know I would and I'm sure that everyone here values their animals, expensive and elite or common and cheap, all alike, would do the same. Feeding greens to rabbits~their natural food~done by those who post here or other places and who have not reported any deaths from doing so would seem like proof enough for them to continue the practice ...I'm sure if they had rabbits die from it they would immediately cease and desist from feeding fresh greens to said rabbits.

Those who want to feed bagged feeds, please..continue to do so! Those who want to feed a more natural diet,please...continue to do so! No one is twisting anyone's arm here to conform or change to a natural diet for their animals.


For my part, feeding all natural has several purposes in my life:

1. Cost~the cheaper I can get by on feed for the animals I will be eating, the better all around. I've found that a free or $1 animal tastes much the same as the heritage breed chicks I received this spring that are worth much money when sold....they sorta all taste like chicken. Rabbits all taste like rabbits, common or high bred. Cheap animals and cheap feed align with my lifestyle of frugality and practicality. It always has and always will be that way.

2. Availability~the meadow and forest around my place has a wealth of food that I didn't have to buy or till/plant that has better nutrition than anything found in a bag or formulated by a poultry nutritionist. If I were to get into rabbits, I'd be utilizing those same nutrients that are available for free here...who wouldn't take advantage of FREE? Putting rabbits in a tractor so they can glean their own, feeding good hay that is $4 a bale that can last quite a long time, harvesting browse that grows locally, providing whole grains, fruits, vegetables that can be cheaply obtained or grow here already for free are also in my wheelhouse of things that are available and cheap. If I lived 3 miles from a place that offered healthy rabbit food for $12 a bag you can bet I'd also avail myself of that resource as well~that covers my need for low cost, availability and would be a natural conclusion, particularly for winter feeding options.

3. Health~ I've found that a more natural diet for animals is a healthy choice and as God intended. The closer I can get them to what they would consume in nature, the better they seem to thrive, ward off illness, have less problems with laying and birthing, etc. With time I've come to learn that in my livestock management and so I find it prudent to continue with feeding more natural foods, not filling the animals with medicines, providing a more natural life style of being out on the soil and not overworking the soils with heavy stocking of animals, etc.

4. Fulfillment~I'm not one for fussy feeding regimens, time consuming management methods or labor intensive routines. The natural free ranging of my flock and gleaning things easily for them in other ways~deep litter, pumpkin scavenging, fruit harvests~is something that is easy and makes me feel good when I see the chickens running free on the land and socializing in a natural setting. Even when I worked full time and long hours I found that this type of management, once in place, was the easiest for my busy schedule and my personal energy resources. It fit my budget, my time constraints and my personal conviction that animals should get to live as natural as possible before being utilized for food for my family.

5. Self-sustainability~ What can I put in place to feed my animals that can be more self-sustaining if I should happen to lose income, lose available feed sources, lose transportation to get bagged feeds? Why not implement those before that possibility becomes an eventuality? Living out in the sticks we know that at any given minute the power goes out, flooding blocks roads to town, illness and lay offs can cause a sharp drop in income, and simply put..the economy and state of the world are not in a good place. We like to prepare for such emergencies on a yearly basis~ as we have always done~ by storing food we grow and harvest, living frugally so there is extra for emergencies, getting in firewood for the winter, drawing up water and storing it for times without power, etc. We intentionally live in the country where we can grow and harvest food, where we can heat with wood, where we can live on well water, where we have the freedom to live our natural life in this manner.

Why then would livestock management be any different? We buy in bulk when we go to the feed store and we store enough for a couple three months of feeding. But, knowing that feed supplies could become unavailable at any moment in our world I try to lessen my flock's dependence on grain based feeds on a continual basis so that if I can no longer afford or have access to formulated feeds, that my flock can still thrive and produce without them. If I were to get rabbits, it would be like that also. That dependence on all things produced by other people in other places is not something of which I am too fond and I've always worked towards some level of independence from it.

You can't plan for every emergency and you can't prepare for long term survival in a world gone to pieces~I find that nonsensical~ but one can surely prepare for things like a lack of access to bagged feeds in their livestock paradigm. That's easy and a no brainer.

 

[Triple Willow]

@Bitterroot... I just came in and I am cooold! My roosters are all crowing, "Brr Brrr Brrr Brrrrrrrrr!" haha

Don't worry about strong personalities. Just be you and I can tell folks (in there right mind) will be just find with you. If they're not, whooo caaares!

Twenty years isn't so long ago once you start heading toward ...older. lol But I know what you mean about the world losing its mind! We seem to be headed for that at top speed! I look at some things going on and I think to myself, "Am I the only one who sees the BS in this!?!"

I look forward to learning about rabbit keeping from you and the others!