Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[Beekissed]

I don't know...never had this event before. I know with sourdough bread starter, you can dump off the "bad" water that separates to the top, feed it, stir it and most of the time it will recover. I'm not sure about the FF...I'm just new at this like you all are.

I guess someone has to be the one that experiments with the possibilities......

Who will it be?

 

[Island Roo]

I love all the smell stages you have

.

When I fermented a bucket with just whole grains it started to smell very ripe after a couple of months of adding fresh grains. It almost made me gag but the chickens loved it. After rinsing the water off the grains they had a sour smell but still

. Anyway, I kept the batch going until a couple weeks ago and everyone is thriving.

I've never heard of any chickens that were make sick with FF... I was nervous giving my stinky grains to the layers - only you can decide if you should continue.

But if you ever do get the bad stuff growing your SOL. I don't think those toxins can be broken down by fermenting.

 

[griffinkid02]

I just got back in town (my mom was taking care of my kids and chickens). The ff smells closer to rotten than sour at this point (it went through the alcohol smell stage and the cheesy smell stage and then the sour smell stage). I think it's salvageable, but it does have some mold growth around the sides of the bucket where it sloshed and then didn't stay submerged.

I asked Mom to stir it (and she may have), but she didn't add anything b/c I'd mixed up too big a batch and just figured she could use it down a bit.

Can I correct this batch? I don't want to hurt my layers, but it's a lot of grains to waste...

I figured if the 'bad' bacteria were proliferating, I could swing it back in favor of the beneficial bacteria by adding more and feeding them. Tonight I dumped in a lot of raw acv, added more water (unfortunately it was hose water so it has chlorine), and a few more scoops of food. I wouldn't say it's definitely rotten, but I don't like the smell. How do I know when it's too far gone?

I use the chicken baramoter as my rule of thumb: if the chickens are still eating it, and not doing backflips, it's probably ok. Thus far I've had two batches go bad. Both times I THOUGHT it was ruined but when I set the bucket down and they all ran up to it, took one bite and FLED away, I knew. The chickens will tell you if something is wrong, lol. My third batcc has been running continuously for about 3 months now with no further problems, a dose of ACV and that slightly chlorinated water may well do wonders for you, lol.

 

[chicken curious]

...and most of the time it will recover.

...

I guess someone has to be the one that experiments with the possibilities......

Who will it be?

That's what I was thinking. And with my Biology degree I'm prone to experimenting (to a degree)!

I love all the smell stages you have

.
...
It almost made me gag but the chickens loved it.

You might...but DH and kids are not so impressed! LOL At first DH walked into the garage and asked what kind of alcohol we were brewing (I brew kombucha and he brews beer so it was a reasonable question, although we typically don't brew in the garage). Then a few days later he asked if I'd finally gotten around to learning to make cheese! Then sourdough. Now he wants to know if something died. Actually, there are some roaches decomposing in it...

yeah, it's not a great smell, but I'm not gagging yet and they love it. I'll go with the "chicken barometer"

I use the chicken baramoter as my rule of thumb

a dose of ACV and that slightly chlorinated water may well do wonders for you, lol.

I hadn't thought about the chlorine in the water possibly being a help here! That's a good point and I may boost the good bacteria again tomorrow (after most of the chlorine evaporates, right?) with more acv and/or yogurt.

Oh, I just remembered that I dumped in some brine from some traditionally fermented pickles...might be a bit salty, but this batch is so BIG. I do know the pickle juice was chocked full of probiotics!

I totally bit off more that they can chew (I crack myself up!). I went from 1 gallon fermenting to 20+ gallon fermenting. I think I'll drop back to 5 gallons! (I was just using what I had

)

Another idea I had was to pull some of this grain out and freeze it...slowing down, but not killing the bacteria. Now, that's if I'm successful "fixing" the balance and I still feel like I have too much.

 

[Kildare49]

Just wanted to say thanks Bee for this thread.

Butchered on saturday ( did 26 x's). All males.....excluding the one runt...very uniform weights.

@ 7.5 weeks dressed weights ranged from 5 - 6lbs. FF from day one.

Dw was very hesitant about doing meat birds. But introducing ff fed birds to her made all the difference. If all ff does is reduce odor issues it is worth doing.

Butchering went very smooth....only myself processing....so only planned on doing 1/2 of them.

Have dw ready to do them again next spring.

Thank You

 

[knjinnm]

LOL
I've seem my birds pecking at dead rats that sink, which happens fast, but stop at a point and move on to something else. The birds won't eat something that has gone south unless they are starving.

 

[Beekissed]

Wow...sounds like great finishing weights! Hey, don't thank me....Shadowmane started this thread! I wish we could hear from him, haven't seen him here for a long time.

We'll be waiting to hear how they taste.

Mine are so incredibly tender and succulent, particularly considering mine were so free ranged and moved like dervishes all their little lives.

 

[bruceh]

Just wanted to say thanks Bee for this thread.

Butchered on saturday ( did 26 x's). All males.....excluding the one runt...very uniform weights.

@ 7.5 weeks dressed weights ranged from 5 - 6lbs. FF from day one.

Dw was very hesitant about doing meat birds. But introducing ff fed birds to her made all the difference. If all ff does is reduce odor issues it is worth doing.

Butchering went very smooth....only myself processing....so only planned on doing 1/2 of them.

Have dw ready to do them again next spring.

Thank You

what hatchery did these birds come from. wow thats a big bird in 7 1/2 weeks

 

[pigeonguy]

I've seen through out this thread people asking if we are making alcohol. I have not seen a definitive answer to that question. (only on page 68) I also have no definitive answer but do remember when I checked the moonshine pages few years back. It said that to make alcohol you take yeast and grain mash and mix with water. So in my thoughts yes the people that are using yeast are making alcohol (grains make sugar yeast eats sugar and excretes alcohol). On the other hand I have been looking at recipes for making apple cider vinegar and the mother in the vinegar appears to start out as yeast (the yeast eats sugar from apple and excretes alcohol but then something happens to the yeast and the mother takes over and turns the alcohol into vinegar) That's where I get confused the mother turns the alcohol into vinegar what the heck is mother I can't find any thing on the web to say exactly what it is. So when we use ACV to make fermented feed I don't know if it goes through the alcohol stage or not. Now what I do know when we use yeast as some are natural or bought it is making alcohol and every time you add new grains more sugar is released and more alcohol is made until you reach the alcohol by volume rate of the yeast you have used. Maybe someone with more experience in brewing (I've seen comments from some talking about making beer and wine) will comment on this and let us know when alcohol is no longer alcohol or if in fact we are making alcohol and getting our chickens addicted to it and that is why they flock to it and forget about the the dry stuff.
Also so far I have read that they don't put on the weight as fast with the ff as they do with dry and that they eat less ff than dry that is typical of an alcoholic and it is said they seem happier
of course the do if their drunk. Seriously I am curious about this because I started ff yesterday thought about this and quit today.

 

[Beekissed]

I've seen through out this thread people asking if we are making alcohol. I have not seen a definitive answer to that question. (only on page 68) I also have no definitive answer but do remember when I checked the moonshine pages few years back. It said that to make alcohol you take yeast and grain mash and mix with water. So in my thoughts yes the people that are using yeast are making alcohol (grains make sugar yeast eats sugar and excretes alcohol). On the other hand I have been looking at recipes for making apple cider vinegar and the mother in the vinegar appears to start out as yeast (the yeast eats sugar from apple and excretes alcohol but then something happens to the yeast and the mother takes over and turns the alcohol into vinegar) That's where I get confused the mother turns the alcohol into vinegar what the heck is mother I can't find any thing on the web to say exactly what it is. So when we use ACV to make fermented feed I don't know if it goes through the alcohol stage or not. Now what I do know when we use yeast as some are natural or bought it is making alcohol and every time you add new grains more sugar is released and more alcohol is made until you reach the alcohol by volume rate of the yeast you have used. Maybe someone with more experience in brewing (I've seen comments from some talking about making beer and wine) will comment on this and let us know when alcohol is no longer alcohol or if in fact we are making alcohol and getting our chickens addicted to it and that is why they flock to it and forget about the the dry stuff.
Also so far I have read that they don't put on the weight as fast with the ff as they do with dry and that they eat less ff than dry that is typical of an alcoholic and it is said they seem happier
of course the do if their drunk. Seriously I am curious about this because I started ff yesterday thought about this and quit today.

Drunk chickens! From what I understand, vinegar bacteria eats sugar alcohol and produces acetic acid. The yeast you are referring to is not the kind that is used to make vinegar...as you can see by the quote below, vinegar yeast is a BAD thing when trying to make alcohol and brewers actually try to guard against getting any of it in their ferment and used air tight systems in order to do so.



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Typing two words into the search and pressing enter yields this...there are literally thousands of hits on the what and where of mother vinegar. This one was the first one on the page....
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The chickens flock to it when it's first introduced and they get a good taste of it...this would hardly give them time to form an addiction. I don't know anyone whose birds actually didn't put on weight while using the FF....from all reports, most people are showing great weights on their meat birds with the use of the FF. They might put on weight slower because people are usually not feeding FF free choice and using the typical methods that others are using to push the chickens into rapid weight gain~but they do put on weight as you can read in the quote directly below.

My own meaties finished out with good weights in the end as well and I found no liver disease or enlargement in any of the birds processed, which would probably be quite noticeable in young birds being fed alcohol every day of their lives.

I think your poultry sobriety worries are for nought.

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