Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[maryhysong]

I am starting my FF tomorrow but, was lookin at the protein levels and noticed my feed label says "Do not provide additional grain." Is this only cause the feed manufacturer wants me to use as much there feed as possible? Also for now am just using crumbles with ACV. It's 17% protein Next week I plan on adding more grains. Is it to much protein if I add Flaxseed and barley to this mix, with Boss tossed to them for a treat from time to time.

Because feeding more grain will lower the protein level of the entire mix because grains are only like 10-12% protein. But most of us feed some sort of mix of layer mash and whole scratch grains anyway; so unless you use a lot of grain I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[maryhysong]

Because feeding more grain will lower the protein level of the entire mix because grains are only like 10-12% protein. But most of us feed some sort of mix of layer mash and whole scratch grains anyway; so unless you use a lot of grain I wouldn't worry about it.

I meant that for layers. For meat birds it depends on how fast you want them to grow out. A lot here seem to be feeding a little lower protein level so that the CornishX birds will grow slower That gives them more time to develop flavor and real muscle and lets their bodies keep up with their weight gain so they aren't crippled by weak bones and joints.

 

[Suzierd]

galefrances  You don't have to be able to kill a chicken or any other animal to Cull it. There are people like me that yes at 2AM in the morning would come do that for you .What you need to do before it is to late. Meaning do it now before you need it done. Find someone that kills chickens for meat and ask them if they would do the same for you. Most people that kill for meat don't have a problem with killing a chicken for any reason. They are going to do it anyway. I think the intention here is that no one wants to see an animal suffer. We do need to take into consideration though that it is ok to give meds and try to save it and yes sometimes even if it looks hopeless. I have seen this work where I have said let me take her out back and the owner has said no try to save it and by golly it worked. Not my way of doing things but if it is yours it is OK. Because its just a chicken and I see people suffer to death a lot happens every day. I just watched it happen to my mom took 4 days and I sat at her side holding her hand the whole time sure we gave her morphine to keep her comfortable but couldn't they just have gave her something to put her to sleep. No because its a human life. If ever I wanted to be merciful it was then. What makes chickens any better than humans. 
Some people believe that it is best not to try when it looks hopeless others do. Some people say that if that happened to me I would kill it (lets get it straight that cull and kill are not the same cull =remove from flock kill = dead)  and then sometimes when the time comes sentiments kick in and they don't do it. 
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...rors-anyone-want-to-follow-their-progress/350

If that would have been anyone else she would have said kill them and start over but it wasn't it was her prize flock and they got screwed over. So I'll give them a second chance. Softy (said with a music tone teasingly) Everyone has a heart somewhere and Bee has shown that over and over again. She's just rough on the outside. Every time something bad actually happens you could count on her to shed a tear on the inside. She really does mean well and has some of the soundest advice on this whole site. The thing is you have to sort out what works for you. You will always have people that have different opinions than you or someone that has what you consider better advice.
Trust me inside that gall is just a big oh sweaty. Sorry Bee it had to come out sooner or later.
PS I have never met Bee but if you go threw and read her post you will see what I am talking about. Read enough and you will think you know her too. The link above proves what I am saying.
PPSS: galefrances please come back and join us. We are a community (if not family) built of all different kinds of people. To keep the community / family going we need you to stay with us.

Very well said.

 

[Pozees]

I SO needed to hear this. Thank you. My youngest is 3 1/2, and tbh, I've sort of begun to despair of the future. I already feel so worn out.
And, yes, ibuprofen is My Friend.

I only have one child, and when he was 3 1/2 I was exhausted all the time. The fact you have other children only multiplies how tired you must feel! Take heart. And the next time you visit your doctor, ask to have your thyroid checked. Just in case.

One thing my son really enjoyed at that age was helping me in the garden - I don't know whether you garden, but if so, you might try it. It kept him occupied where I could see him, and made him tired enough to nap well Plus, as he got older he became my chief tree hole digger - huge bonus!

 

[Beekissed]

Some interesting info on proteins for poultry:

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/feed_ingredients/proteins.html

 

[pigeonguy]

Some interesting info on proteins for poultry:

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/feed_ingredients/proteins.html

Very interesting that sunflowers raise the cholesterol in the egg yolk. Some of the other reading was interesting but that caught my eye. Wife and dad have high cholesterol already. I was going to grow a couple of rows of BOSS about 400 yards long might reconsider and only do 1 row 100 yards and use them only as treats to turn the litter.

 

[IAFarmGirl]

Here's the question I have about protein and the thought that this particular breed of chicken needs more protein to live and develop than do layer birds. Why is that, exactly? If a laying flock stay healthy, fat and producing on layer mash and produce well, live to be a ripe ol' age and maintain good condition, why then is it imperative that these CX have extreme high percentages of protein to "put on muscle"?

They were bred with the genetics to lay on more muscle, deeper muscle layers, than their DP counterparts but does this mean that they MUST have high pro to develop those muscles? If you have the genetics to be a tall person and you eat the same thing as your shorter brother, will you just be short like him or will you develop what your genetic code says you will? If it is adequate protein for a layer bird, it is adequate protein for a meat bird~at least that is my conclusion.

Saying that lower protein feeds will stunt the ability of the CX to develop muscle is like claiming that bantam breeds need the lowest protein to keep them smaller and then the layers need a medium protein to keep them at standard size, so the CX must need high protein to make them heavier, meatier breeds. Genetics are genetics and what food suffices to keep one bird healthy will do the same with another.

Gotta do it like the big boys 'cause it took 50 years of research to learn how to get these birds fat in a short amount of time! You simply can't raise CX in any other way~by their thinking~because that's the way that everyone is doing it, so it must be right.

Poor chickens.

Poor people eating that meat later on.

Glad I have access to a better way to produce a better product and I'm glad there are some folks visiting this thread that want to try a different way also.

I just read this post from long ago(April 2012) so I don't know if this has ever been answered for you Beekissed. Now while I don't know a lot about chickens I do know a little something about feeds as my father managed feed stores his whole life and tried to teach me a thing or two. When questioning nutrients you need to determine what is needed to produce a desired product. On your meat birds obviously you want meat, meat is muscle and so then the question is what is muscle...well it is mostly protein. Thus the reason for high protein feeds for the meaties. So if you want to avoid the problems of heart attacks (note: heart muscle grows more slowly than other muscle no matter the amount of protein), etc you need to lower the amount of protein slightly to stop/slow excessive growth.

Several years ago I was given a very nice foal that had contracted tendons. They were going to put a bullet in his head if I didn't take him. So I brought him home. Now his problem was that the tendons and muscle were not growing as fast as the bone and I needed to correct that. Most conventional wisdom says that you feed lower protein feeds to horses with this condition but I remembered what my father had taught me and so I upped his protein from 14% to 18% and this is pretty big for horses. I also fed high quality alfalfa because of the calcium/phos ratio which is slightly unbalanced for horses being too low in calcium (slow the bone growth slightly). So with this program and good foot care I reversed the problems this horse was having and he is now completely sound and rideable. He no longer needs a special diet so now he gets what everyone else gets.

Hope this maybe helps you understand why commercially they push the protein to the meaties. They only need it because they want them to grow so fast and the birds are genetically predisposed to fast growth. Just because you feed a high protein does not mean you will get faster growth in all animals. It does matter what their genetics will do with the additional nutrients.

 

[Beekissed]

That was a rhetorical question...

I've raised meaties on regular layer ration, so I know they don't need high pro to develop the muscle to get to the correct weights.

 

[pigeonguy]

I just read this post from long ago(April 2012) so I don't know if this has ever been answered for you Beekissed. Now while I don't know a lot about chickens I do know a little something about feeds as my father managed feed stores his whole life and tried to teach me a thing or two. When questioning nutrients you need to determine what is needed to produce a desired product. On your meat birds obviously you want meat, meat is muscle and so then the question is what is muscle...well it is mostly protein. Thus the reason for high protein feeds for the meaties. So if you want to avoid the problems of heart attacks (note: heart muscle grows more slowly than other muscle no matter the amount of protein), etc you need to lower the amount of protein slightly to stop/slow excessive growth.

Several years ago I was given a very nice foal that had contracted tendons. They were going to put a bullet in his head if I didn't take him. So I brought him home. Now his problem was that the tendons and muscle were not growing as fast as the bone and I needed to correct that. Most conventional wisdom says that you feed lower protein feeds to horses with this condition but I remembered what my father had taught me and so I upped his protein from 14% to 18% and this is pretty big for horses. I also fed high quality alfalfa because of the calcium/phos ratio which is slightly unbalanced for horses being too low in calcium (slow the bone growth slightly). So with this program and good foot care I reversed the problems this horse was having and he is now completely sound and rideable. He no longer needs a special diet so now he gets what everyone else gets.

Hope this maybe helps you understand why commercially they push the protein to the meaties. They only need it because they want them to grow so fast and the birds are genetically predisposed to fast growth. Just because you feed a high protein does not mean you will get faster growth in all animals. It does matter what their genetics will do with the additional nutrients.

Welcome to BYC Good to have someone aboard that was raised to know feed. What is in your feed and are you fermenting yet? What kinda chickens do you have? What part of the country you from?

 

[Tivona]

Has anyone here fed ff to pheasants? I may be given some here soon...I was told they need to put on some weight.

I already do the ff for my geese and ducks and they are doing great on this stuff. The geese have really filled out and are finally looking the way I want them. The geese and ducks are not meat birds but I still like to see them a bit plump, particularly for winter. Anyway as the ff is doing such a great job on filling out birds I was thinking that if I get the pheasants then perhaps this might help them fill out a bit too. Anyone here know any reason the ff would or wouldn't work for the pheasants?