Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[pigeonguy]

I think this question may be for Pigeon - but if anyone else has input, please!!!

I am thinking I want to try to come up w/ a feed that is TOTALLY LEGUME FREE. Right now I use soy-free (for various reasons). There are peas in the mix to make up some of the protein. However, it seems obvious to me that the birds wouldn't choose to eat a legume if they were choosing their own feed. Additionally, I think that the bio-availability of the protein from legumes (and probably grains as well unless they are fermented or sprouted) is pretty low.

So...that being said, I'm wondering how you might suggest formulating a totally legume-free feed that keeps the protein level at 16 - 17%. I do currently use fish meal in the mix and perhaps upping that may help.

I get my feed from a feed mill that formulates for me. When I originally got it, I told him what I didn't want in it and he formulated to protein level around that. I'm going to call him again and see what he comes up with if I ask for totally legume-free, but wanted to get input here first.

I don't really do legume free. I have thought about soy free. Legume free would mean I could not feed clover, or alfalfa which I will definitely do. The ingredients I have listed so far for my new feed will be Flax seed, corn, kelp, dried distillers grains, sweet 16, pork meal and or fish meal.
This is subject to change because I am working on it all the time to keep cost down, I will be meeting with the nutritionist at Dekalb feeds hopefully this week to get a better understanding about it nutrition wise and cost wise. It is soy free I think but not 100% sure till I meet with the nutritionist.
I did find this list of things that contain Legumes.
Well-known legumes include alfalfa, clover, peas, beans,lentils, lupins, mesquite, carob, soy, and peanuts.
That is from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legumes
Sorry I could not be of more help on this.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I don't really do legume free. I have thought about soy free. Legume free would mean I could not feed clover, or alfalfa which I will definitely do. The ingredients I have listed so far for my new feed will be Flax seed, corn, kelp, dried distillers grains, sweet 16, pork meal and or fish meal.
This is subject to change because I am working on it all the time to keep cost down, I will be meeting with the nutritionist at Dekalb feeds hopefully this week to get a better understanding about it nutrition wise and cost wise. It is soy free I think but not 100% sure till I meet with the nutritionist.
I did find this list of things that contain Legumes.
Well-known legumes include alfalfa, clover, peas, beans,lentils, lupins, mesquite, carob, soy, and peanuts.
That is from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legumes
Sorry I could not be of more help on this.

I think I need to clarify - I'm not wanting to do it without the plant matter (clover & alfalfa), it's the seed (the peas, etc.) that I want to avoid. Does that make more sense?

 

[flagirl]

was just catching up and got up to the culling in 253 and thought this little video would give everyone a chuckle
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/0...site&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

 

[aoxa]

I have tried to start chicks on the fermented feed and they did not like it.  Meat birds are different.  Their appetites are so huge that they would probably eat you if you laid still long enough. 

Anyway... I start mine on dry crumbles.  After about a week or so, I start introducing the ff and they're more accustomed to eating and I think they like it better than the dry... after they learn to eat.

If they hatched on Friday morning, they're only two days old this morning.  They're fine but they should start pecking at food today.  Definitely by tomorrow.  Are they standing around, under the heater, crying?  If not, I'd say they're fine... at this point.  They need to be eating by tonight though.

I don't know that I would use molasses.  There's more in it than B vitamins.  Sulphur is one unless it is an unsulphured molasses and I don't know what that process does to the product.  There are chick vitamins/electrolytes on the market.  Any feed store will carry them. 

This is what I would suggest as well. With dual purpose type chicks.. They are slow to start eating. I can't even get them to eat dry from a feeder for 4 days. They like to eat off the ground. I start them on paper towel, because I've had issues with them eating shavings) and sprinkle that chick crumble all around. By 1 week, they are ready for the FF (if not sooner). My chicks have been on FF since they were 2 weeks old. They absolutely love it!!

 

[Miss Lydia]

This is what I would suggest as well. With dual purpose type chicks.. They are slow to start eating. I can't even get them to eat dry from a feeder for 4 days. They like to eat off the ground. I start them on paper towel, because I've had issues with them eating shavings) and sprinkle that chick crumble all around. By 1 week, they are ready for the FF (if not sooner). My chicks have been on FF since they were 2 weeks old. They absolutely love it!!

What a bunch of cuties.

 

[aoxa]

What a bunch of cuties.  

Thanks Miss Lydia! They are messy though. Lots of feed all over their beards and feet

 

[Lacy Blues]

If you have ACV in the water, they don't need anything else..it has plenty of vitamins and minerals for the chicks. The molasses may cause running poos and pasty butts...its a little rich. I wouldn't be too concerned as they have been living on their yolks still....many who get chicks in the mail are receiving chicks that have had no water or food for 2-3 days and have been in highly stressful conditions....and chicks are still fine and very active.

I had a few standard chicks in with the CX I got this spring and they took to the FF just like the meaties...did not have to be shown the food or any beaks dipped. I often wonder about this whole beak dipping thing....never dipped a chick's beak in my life, they instinctively know about the water and how to drink it, IME.

Give it time, they will deplete their yolk nutrition and come out of it hungry....they will eat the FF and do just fine. Might want to place the FF right under one edge of the light's radiation so that it stays warm for them but not directly under it so that it doesn't dry out and form a crust they cannot penetrate.

Having them in with the meaties may be the explanation. The cornish x will eat just about anything from a very early age. Those other types in with them, just followed their example. It's a good system if you buy the crosses but I don't.

 

[aoxa]

I'm uploading a video as we speak showing my feed bubbling. This is the first time I've seen such bubbling! It was really cold out this morning too. High today was 6 degrees C.

 

[aoxa]

And here is the feed bubbling

Before I stirred, it looked like this.

 

[galanie]

SO cool, Aoxa!!!