Fermenting Feed

[bk32]

Hello,
I have begun fermenting feed for my chickens as we go through a lot of feed and I’ve looked over the benefits of fermenting.
My question is this: when I put the fermented feed out for the chickens to eat, how long should I leave it out there? I’m still trying to figure out how much they’ll consume in a day.
I think my first batch was too little, but this one might’ve been too much.
Can it sit outside for several hours or is it one of those things if they don’t finish it in 30 minutes I should toss it? I tried looking it up online but couldn’t find any definite answers.
Thank you!

 

[SandyRiverChick]

This is why I don't "pre-ferment," it turns bad too fast. Instead I add water to "feed powder," in a big shallow pan like a horse grain feeder and leave it out for them for about 3 days(putting it up at night in galvanized garbage cans.). It's always gone by the end of the 3rd day. Anything more than that and it starts to mold.

 

[NatJ]

I think my first batch was too little, but this one might’ve been too much.
Can it sit outside for several hours or is it one of those things if they don’t finish it in 30 minutes I should toss it? I tried looking it up online but couldn’t find any definite answers.

It should be fine for at least a few hours.

If you leave dry feed available all the time, you can give them an amount of fermented feed that is "not quite enough," so they eat it up quickly and then eat a bit of dry feed to finish meeting their needs for the day. That way you don't have the fermented feed sitting around, but you don't accidentally under-feed your chickens either.

 

[PacificChorusFrog]

I totally agree with NatJ. I'm still figuring out how much to give mine each day. I err on the "not enough" side and let them have some dry feed later. At first they preferred the dry, but it only took a few days before they go straight for the fermented.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Several hours is fine. Because you've fermented it, if you have done it properly, it is already colonized with beneficial (or at least, not harmful) microbes - they will help to protect against bad microbes getting a foothold, to a point (we've all seen green fuzzy growths on the old yogurt, after all).

That point is determined by the quality of your air, ambient temperature, pH of your fermented feed, and a host of other factors. There's no "one answer fits all" here. But a few hours should be ok in virtually any normal environment.

I don't ferment, but I do vary the amount of feed my birds get daily. I have a "10 minute" rule. If the birds gobble everything up in much less than 10 minutes and are mobbing me for more, I'm not feeding enough. If after ten minutes they have wandered off, leaving a pile of food behind, I've fed too much.

I have to do it this way because my birds free range a large pasture, and how much it feeds them varies by season, recent rainfall, and other factors I haven't identified yet. You may find that a useful approach in your situation as well.

 

[rosemarythyme]

It should be fine for at least a few hours.

If you leave dry feed available all the time, you can give them an amount of fermented feed that is "not quite enough," so they eat it up quickly and then eat a bit of dry feed to finish meeting their needs for the day. That way you don't have the fermented feed sitting around, but you don't accidentally under-feed your chickens either.

This is my approach as well. They get FF in the morning and depending on how hungry they are it can last a few hours or through to mid afternoon. It might be a bit dry and crumbly by afternoon but it's still edible and they'll finish it off if I just put the bowls on the ground in the middle of the run. Dry feed is also available during the day so after they finish the FF off they can eat their fill of that, so there's never too much food or too little.

 

[Perris]

I have begun fermenting feed for my chickens

What sort of feed are you fermenting? There are 2 categories and they behave differently.

The first is whole or broken grains. When they ferment changes take place and the nutritional value of the grains increases (plus some other benefits like changing the ph).

The second is homogenised commercial feed in crumble or pellet form. When that is set to ferment it basically just gets wet and what changes take place make it smell strongly and little else.

Much of the confusion about fermented feed in online discussions arises from a failure to observe this simple basic distinction in the type of feed involved.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

What sort of feed are you fermenting? There are 2 categories and they behave differently.

The first is whole or broken grains. When they ferment changes take place and the nutritional value of the grains increases (plus some other benefits like changing the ph).

The second is homogenised commercial feed in crumble or pellet form. When that is set to ferment it basically just gets wet and what changes take place make it smell strongly and little else.

Source?

Milling doesn't change chemistry. The same microbes, working on the same ingredients, in the same conditions, will result in the same biochemical changes - whether its whole corn, cracked corn, or milled corn. Ditto wheat, Barley, Oats, and all the rest.

The primary difference is speed of initial ferment. By cracking the outer protective layer, cracked corn can be colonized more quickly than whole corn. Milled corn, with its greater surface area relative to volume, faster still.

Yes, if there are other things done to the ingredients - such as converting soy beans into soy meal - the outcome is different, but that's because you are starting with different ingredients, not because of the magic of fermentation.

 

[Perris]

Milling does change the chemistry, because it alters the structure and matrix of the grain (so the ingredients are not 'the same'), and oxidation and deterioration of the nutrients within starts immediately. Some of what was in the grain is destroyed by milling.

"As nutrient loss occurs during milling, nutrients are added to flour in amounts equal to those present before processing to make enriched flour. Fortified flour is made by adding nutrients in excess to quantities lost during milling, or additional nutrients are added to improve its nutritive value." https://grainfoodsfoundation.org/grain-facts/the-milling-process/

Or see "Cereals and legumes are important part of human diets and a large variety are grown for edible purposes. They contribute significantly towards energy, protein, vitamins, minerals, dietary fiber, and phytochemical intakes. All grains undergo different types and levels of processing to make them edible and palatable. Pre-processing of grains is essential to prepare them for further processing and involves simple operations such as de husking, milling, sieving, parboiling, germination, etc. Any kind of processing alters the nutritional quality of grains depending upon type and severity. Since the distribution of constituents in grain is not uniform, the milling processes can greatly influence the composition of resultant grain or flour." https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/23311932.2015.1136015?needAccess=true

 

[U_Stormcrow]

First link compares whole grain flour to "all purpose" flow with its bran and germ removed. Not at all relevant to milling grains for animal feed. Its the refining that removes the bran and germ, and thus altering the nutritional averages of the end product.

The second link talks about a number of different processes as responsible for altering the nutritional content, notes that many reduce anti-nutritional properties (such as tannins and phytic acid) and can make the nutritional content more bioavailable. It has almost nothing to say about milling specifically, LOTS to say about sieving the milled product, which is a refining process (much like the first link's focus)

It does note the effect of particle size reduction on wheat bran and its effect on phytic acid "Majzoobi, Pashangeh, Farahnaky, Eskandari, and Jamalian (2014) studied the effect of particle size reduction, hydrothermal treatment, and fermentation on phytic acid contents of wheat bran and reported various levels of reduction in different treatments. Phytic acid content decreased from 50.1 mg/g to 21.6, 32.8 and 43.9 mg/g after particle size reduction, hydrothermal treatment, and fermentation. A combination of hydrothermal and fermentation treatment along with particle size reduction further reduced phytic acid content up to 74.4 and 57.3%, respectively." That's (often) a net benefit - and as the study says, fermentation reduces Phytic acid further.

Neither suggest that the process of milling makes fermentation of the milled product worthless - which would come as a shock to brewers of beer these past several thousand years, I'm sure. Bakers of sourdough too, though that is often done with refined flour. Its the refining that altered the nutrition, not the milling.

Yes, oxygen exposure will result in more rapid degradation of a milled product than its whole equivalent - greater surface area to volume, a fact I have conceded elsewhere and alluded to above w/ regard speed of fermentation. But that process isn't instant, any more than fats go rancid instantly. Nor is it uniform or consistent - which nutritional elements are affected by what processes (oxidization, fat rancidity, moisture exposure, sunlight exposure, etc) varies.

I have assumed, for purposes of conversation, that we aren't comparing spoiled ingredients with not.