Fertile eggs?

[Cool_Catrules456]

Or, do white leghorns have a gene that makes it difficult for them to get beards and muffs?

 

[NatJ]

All the chicks are bearded and muffed but the white leghorns(s?), does that mean anything? Or did I just get very lucky with the beards and muffs? (I cant tell if the smaller baby is bearded)

Or, do white leghorns have a gene that makes it difficult for them to get beards and muffs?

I think it's more likely that you got lucky.

But that's a good question about whether Leghorns might have some genes that suppress muffs & beard in their chicks even when they are crossed to a bearded male. I can't find anything talking about such a gene, but that may say more about my search skills than about chicken genetics

I did turn up this thread on another site:
http://ameraucanabreedersclub.org/forum/index.php?topic=1007.0
Near the end of it, someone says the size of the muffs & beard is partly influenced by whether the bird is hard feathered or soft feathered. They say they have Ameraucanas that are all pure for muff/beard (two copies of the gene), but that the ones with softer feathers have bigger muffs & beards than the ones with harder feathers.

As I was poking around, I also noticed that almost everywhere says two copies of the muff/beard gene makes a bigger beard than one copy. So it's probably true, and I must not have been paying proper attention last time I read about the subject, because I don't remember noticing it before.

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

I think it's more likely that you got lucky.

But that's a good question about whether Leghorns might have some genes that suppress muffs & beard in their chicks even when they are crossed to a bearded male. I can't find anything talking about such a gene, but that may say more about my search skills than about chicken genetics

I did turn up this thread on another site:
http://ameraucanabreedersclub.org/forum/index.php?topic=1007.0
Near the end of it, someone says the size of the muffs & beard is partly influenced by whether the bird is hard feathered or soft feathered. They say they have Ameraucanas that are all pure for muff/beard (two copies of the gene), but that the ones with softer feathers have bigger muffs & beards than the ones with harder feathers.

As I was poking around, I also noticed that almost everywhere says two copies of the muff/beard gene makes a bigger beard than one copy. So it's probably true, and I must not have been paying proper attention last time I read about the subject, because I don't remember noticing it before.

It is more likely that I got lucky, but his beard and muffs where the size they would be with two genes. So it could just be my leghorn as its only her chick(s?). All the others have beards and muffs. I should end up with one other chick with no beard and muffs from another hen. Unless somehow there was a hiccup with her and the gene did not pass through? After all he was still a young cockerel. Im thinking I see a beard and muffs on the smaller white chick. I cant tell though.

 

[NatJ]

It is more likely that I got lucky, but his beard and muffs where the size they would be with two genes. So it could just be my leghorn as its only her chick(s?). All the others have beards and muffs. I should end up with one other chick with no beard and muffs from another hen. Unless somehow there was a hiccup with her and the gene did not pass through? After all he was still a young cockerel. Im thinking I see a beard and muffs on the smaller white chick. I cant tell though.

It may become more clear in time, what is happening.

But him being a young cockerel should have nothing to do with whether the genes pass on the way they are expected to.

Digression: are you comfortable with the terms "homozygote" (has two copies of the gene) and "heterozygote" (has one copy of the gene)? I realized I've been avoiding them, because they confuse about half the people I talk to, but they are really handy in situations like this. If you find them confusing, I can go back to avoiding them.


So if there are several chicks with no muff/beard, especially if they come from two different mothers, I would say the father is a heterozygote (only has one copy of the muff/beard gene), no matter how big his own personal muff and beard are.

I would consider test-mating to be more accurate than just looking at the bird, especially for things that are "more likely" to be big or small in homozygotes or heterozygotes (muff/beard and crest larger in homozygotes, pea comb and V-comb smaller in homozygotes, feathered feet have more feathers in homozygotes and less in heterozygotes, and so forth.) To the best of my knowledge, every one of those can have some birds that look one way, but test mating shows them to be the other way.

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

It may become more clear in time, what is happening.

But him being a young cockerel should have nothing to do with whether the genes pass on the way they are expected to.

Digression: are you comfortable with the terms "homozygote" (has two copies of the gene) and "heterozygote" (has one copy of the gene)? I realized I've been avoiding them, because they confuse about half the people I talk to, but they are really handy in situations like this. If you find them confusing, I can go back to avoiding them.


So if there are several chicks with no muff/beard, especially if they come from two different mothers, I would say the father is a heterozygote (only has one copy of the muff/beard gene), no matter how big his own personal muff and beard are.

I would consider test-mating to be more accurate than just looking at the bird, especially for things that are "more likely" to be big or small in homozygotes or heterozygotes (muff/beard and crest larger in homozygotes, pea comb and V-comb smaller in homozygotes, feathered feet have more feathers in homozygotes and less in heterozygotes, and so forth.) To the best of my knowledge, every one of those can have some birds that look one way, but test mating shows them to be the other way.

It probably will become clear in time. And yes I am fine with those terms being used as I am studying genetics. And I probably wont test him, I will do another breeding project in the spring though. But this time teating his genes, I will breed him to my blue sexlink to test for the blue gene, sence I think I see blue in his tail. If the chicks aee black he does not have it, if blue he has it. Then to the muffless and beardless easter egger incase he does not have colored egg genes. (If she lays blue/green that is) thats it though.

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

The little white chicks are feathering out completely different.



The top chick is allready getting pin feathers for the tail. The lower one has yet to even get secondary feathers.

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

Results from the second hatch (I can tell now,)
White chick male. Was muffed: yes (very small though) bearded?: maybe.
Buff chick: male. Bearded and muffed, starting to get sattle feathers.
GLW chick. Male. Bearded and muffed very thick feet and large dark comb.
Silver chick. Female. Bearded and muffed. No color on comb, and no male traits.
Whos getting kept til they crow. (Only keeping one for breding) brown orpington (the prettiest one)
Results on females to males. Females 3, males 3 (one feed store chick for breeding next year, turns out its a BCM instead of a cochin. so I will make some olive eggers next year)

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

So my feather sexing was correct before, hm. I will wait until the next hatching season to confirm this, but thinking they are able to be feather sexed.

 

[NatJ]

The little white chicks are feathering out completely different.

The top chick is allready getting pin feathers for the tail. The lower one has yet to even get secondary feathers.

Maybe fast vs. slow feathering?

Feather-sexing (fast vs. slow feathering) is often done at hatch, but that's just so the chicks can be sold & shipped sooner. I find the differences much more obvious when they are a few weeks old: the slow ones look half-naked when the fast ones are nicely covered with feathers.

 

[Cool_Catrules456]

The assisted chick is not looking so good, I think I just delayed their death. I will update you on that, if they die I will say what they are.