Fibro Easter Egger Question

[BluebirdHomestead]

This is totally hypothetical, as I have neither of these breeds right now, but I want to start a little breeding project this spring. Just for fun, not trying to profit or anything. Just something to keep my mind busy.
I will state that I’m very much still in the beginning phases of learning about the Fibro gene. I originally was thinking of getting some pure bred Amercaunas and FBCMs and just playing with Olive Eggers. But now I can’t stop imagining a chicken that looks just like a black Ameraucana, but all black (Fibro) and lays blue eggs...I know some people have already done Fibro Easter Eggers and this isn’t break through or anything.
From my understanding, you’d want the Fibro Bird to have both copies of the gene, not just 1 or 1 and the “gypsy gene”. (Sorry if I sound dumb). But you don’t know how many genes the bird carries until you give it a try. So if the Fibro chicken ends up only having 1 gene, will that just result in less of the offspring getting the Fibro gene? Does it change anything else?
As far as egg color genes go, I’d obviously want to use a true Ameraucana so as to make sure it has 2 blue genes. In my situation, would it matter which breed in the hen and which is the rooster? Also, any ideas how this would play out in further generations. I understand what would happen to the Olive Eggers in the sense that I’d want the rooster to be the Marans because I’d breed the F1 offspring back to him to get a darker shade. And then after the F2 I probably wouldn’t continue since at that point a lot would just lay dark brown. For the Fibro Easter Egger, I’m not sure what you’d do. If you bred an F1 back to an Ameraucana rooster, I’d strengthen the blue egg but would I totally lose the Fibro? And if I bred an F1 back to a Fibro rooster, would I lose the blue egg? I’m thinking of maybe using a Svart Hona (since it’s a better layer than a Ayam Cemani), if that matters.

Would love the input and thoughts of someone more educated on this subject than me.

Ok last question just for fun - how would you create a Fibro olive egger? Bonus if it retains the muffs of an Ameraucana.

 

[Trimurtisan]

Okay, that's more than I know, so I'll cherry pick your post...

What breed you would be using for your fibro input? I would recommend using an Ayam Cemani. I guess you could use a Silkie, but if all black is the goal, I'd start with an all black bird. Plus an f1 Silkie cross would have regular feathers, but the silky feather gene would start to pop up in the f2. Unless you want a fluffy black feather footed blue egg layer with potentially 5 toes.

Also, why not use an Araucana?

In my situation, would it matter which breed in the hen and which is the rooster?

To the best of my knowledge, no it would not matter. Same thing for the Olive Eggers. Both parents contribute to the egg color.

I’d want the rooster to be the Marans because I’d breed the F1 offspring back to him to get a darker shade.

You could do the exact same thing with a hen.

And then after the F2 I probably wouldn’t continue since at that point a lot would just lay dark brown.

I've seen them go to f5 and still have a green shade, but f3-4 was my favorite shades.

If you bred an F1 back to an Ameraucana rooster, I’d strengthen the blue egg but would I totally lose the Fibro?

No, it would not lose the fibro, it would just be diluted. Basically you want to do selective breeding and pick the ones with the best traits you are going for. Once that fibro trait is introduced, it's not going to just disappear. You'd going to have to work it out, just like people work traits in.

And if I bred an F1 back to a Fibro rooster, would I lose the blue egg?

Same as the fibro, it doesn't just disappear. It might not be what you want, but it wouldn't be gone after just 1 back cross.

I’m thinking of maybe using a Svart Hona (since it’s a better layer than a Ayam Cemani), if that matters.

Only if egg laying matter to you.
Obviously it does being your trying to make a fibro induced layer. I'm just partial to the Ayam Camani's. Guess is I had some Svarthöna I'd be partial to those instead.

Ok last question just for fun - how would you create a Fibro olive egger? Bonus if it retains the muffs of an Ameraucana.

I don't know... Maybe the same way you'd make a fibro blue egg layer?
It would end up being a polyhybrid with the introduction of the 3rd set of genes, so it would get more tricky. Selective breeding, being VERY observant, take LOTS and LOTS of time making lots of mistakes, back tracking, back crossing, potentially line breeding.

People make cool crosses all the time. Sometimes it takes a ton of work, sometimes it just luck of the draw. I don't know if it was by design, or just luck, but @BlueBaby has a Naked Neck that lays green eggs from a cross they made. Personally I think that is freaking awesome.
My NN just lays the"meh" light brown eggs.

All that above... Take with a grain of salt. My genetic experience is with plants, but in general, a lot of it is the same. Best of luck on your search for knowledge, and on that cross. Sounds like a fun project!

 

[Trimurtisan]

I realize my first question is answered in your post.... The detail was at the very end though... So I'm just leaving it how it is,

 

[BluebirdHomestead]

Okay, that's more than I know, so I'll cherry pick your post...

What breed you would be using for your fibro input? I would recommend using an Ayam Cemani. I guess you could use a Silkie, but if all black is the goal, I'd start with an all black bird. Plus an f1 Silkie cross would have regular feathers, but the silky feather gene would start to pop up in the f2. Unless you want a fluffy black feather footed blue egg layer with potentially 5 toes.

Also, why not use an Araucana?

To the best of my knowledge, no it would not matter. Same thing for the Olive Eggers. Both parents contribute to the egg color.

You could do the exact same thing with a hen.

I've seen them go to f5 and still have a green shade, but f3-4 was my favorite shades.

No, it would not lose the fibro, it would just be diluted. Basically you want to do selective breeding and pick the ones with the best traits you are going for. Once that fibro trait is introduced, it's not going to just disappear. You'd going to have to work it out, just like people work traits in.

Same as the fibro, it doesn't just disappear. It might not be what you want, but it wouldn't be gone after just 1 back cross.

Only if egg laying matter to you.
Obviously it does being your trying to make a fibro induced layer. I'm just partial to the Ayam Camani's. Guess is I had some Svarthöna I'd be partial to those instead.

I don't know... Maybe the same way you'd make a fibro blue egg layer?
It would end up being a polyhybrid with the introduction of the 3rd set of genes, so it would get more tricky. Selective breeding, being VERY observant, take LOTS and LOTS of time making lots of mistakes, back tracking, back crossing, potentially line breeding.

People make cool crosses all the time. Sometimes it takes a ton of work, sometimes it just luck of the draw. I don't know if it was by design, or just luck, but @BlueBaby has a Naked Neck that lays green eggs from a cross they made. Personally I think that is freaking awesome.
My NN just lays the"meh" light brown eggs.

All that above... Take with a grain of salt. My genetic experience is with plants, but in general, a lot of it is the same. Best of luck on your search for knowledge, and on that cross. Sounds like a fun project!

Thank you so much for your thorough and thoughtful response. You’re awesome for taking the time to humor me!

I’m definitely torn between Svart Hona and Ayam Cemani. I think it would be easier to get an AC locally so I may go that route, as I hate shipping birds. Ive never hatched out chickens before but I’m toying with going that route. Not sure yet.

The only reason I want to use an Ameraucana over an Araucana is for the way they look. I love the fluffy faces.

If I actually manage to give this a go, and succeed in getting a Fibro blue egg layer, I’ll have to cross some Marans in and see if I can get olive eggs.

Do you happen to know if Ameraucana or Ayam a Cemani roosters either have a reputation for being friendly? In my mind I’m picturing a AC rooster with Ameraucana Hens to start.

Wow, green egg laying Naked Necks!! That’s awesome.

Thanks again for your response!

 

[Trimurtisan]

Thank you so much for your thorough and thoughtful response. You’re awesome for taking the time to humor me!

Anytime, it humors me too! I love indulging in the "what if's" of breeding.

I’m definitely torn between Svart Hona and Ayam Cemani. I think it would be easier to get an AC locally so I may go that route, as I hate shipping birds. Ive never hatched out chickens before but I’m toying with going that route. Not sure yet.

Hatching is a freaking addiction on its own. You've been warned! It's really fun though, and there just something about watching it pop out of its shell. You also have considerably less chances of having a sick bird vs buying it from someone. Not many illnesses passed through to eggs from what I understand. I think both breeds would work just fine for fibro, but the SH cross should be a better layer. Partial to my ACs and all, but they are not good layers.

The only reason I want to use an Ameraucana over an Araucana is for the way they look. I love the fluffy faces.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to me. They are adorable.

If I actually manage to give this a go, and succeed in getting a Fibro blue egg layer, I’ll have to cross some Marans in and see if I can get olive eggs.

That sounds like the easiest route. Focus on Black n Blues, toss in a Marans (I'm partial to those too!) and see what happens.

Do you happen to know if Ameraucana or Ayam a Cemani roosters either have a reputation for being friendly? In my mind I’m picturing a AC rooster with Ameraucana Hens to start.

AC roos have a rep for being aggressive. Ours is not exactly aggressive, but he is very dominant. He's currently #2 in pecking order, and here doesn't play 2nd best very well. The AC hen though is a sweetheart. I can't say anything bad about her. Obviously, any rooster can be cocky, but ACs are known for it. I don't know much about Ameraucana roosters but is bet you'd have an easier time finding a nice one.

Wow, green egg laying Naked Necks!! That’s awesome.

Mhmm. I'd love a couple of those!

What state are you located in?

 

[BlueBaby]

Ok, you want to make a fibro EE? One that lay's blue Egg's? If I was to go about trying to do that, I would do as @Trimurtisan suggested, using the Ayam Cemani's with the Araucana, or make sure that you have the true Ameraucana's to have the "real" blue egg layer's. Most of the Amerauncana's people have are only EE's, so it won't guarantee your blue egg. Take a Ayam Cemani rooster over the Blue egg hen's, and a blue egg rooster over Ayam Cemani hen's. Keep the chick's that end up with your fibro and closest to what you are wanting. Then you will have to work with them from there to get the end result's that you are looking for.

@Trimurtisan To get the Green egg laying NN, I put the light tan egg rooster over a blue egg laying Crested Cream Legbar hen. She's the white NN hen with the black feather's on her back in my profile album here. So if you are looking to create some like her, that is how I did it.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Well, so the way I'd do it is get a fibro breed and a nice quality blue egg layer.

I don't know much about fibro breeds but I do know it's hard to pin down.

Meanwhile blue eggs are a simple dominant gene. Easy as heck to breed into anything in just a couple generations. So I'd get me a good roo that has two copies of the blue egg gene (shouldn't be hard to get), probably a black ameraucana, and throw it over fibro hens. (Or you COULD do the reverse, one fibro roo, all double-blue hens.) Then after hatching out a generation of half-fibro hens they should get one blue egg gene from the Ameraucana and one non-blue egg gene form the fibro, so should all still have one copy of the blue egg gene and because the gene is simple dominant should lay blue still.

Then I'd scrap the entire original flock and just start breeding the second generation back to fibro roos changing the roos out every few generations. (Shouldn't be hard to source decent roos cheaply even from fancy breeds.) I'd cull every hen that doesn't lay blue (about half the pullet chicks) first, cull for fibro coloring second (choosing the darkest each time), and maybe select for beards and muffs too, then health (sick birds, deformities, failure to thrive, etc).

Ideally you could keep two pens like this and eventually take a roo from one pen with good fibro and muffs to give to the other pen to solidify the muffs on the whole flock.

Then once you've crossed them so there's a chance of getting double blue egg genes I'd lastly bring in a brown or white egg layer/roos to start testing roos for blue egg genes and start only keeping roos and hens that hatch out ONLY blue egg chicks from brown or white eggs.

You could have a really solid fibro flock of blue egg layers this way in just a few years. Since you only need the tiniest drop of Ameraucana to get the blue eggs in because it's simple dominant and so VERY obvious if a hen carries the gene, it shouldn't be hard to get good fibro color back by leaving the ameraucanas out of the whole process after the first generation.

 

[Alaskenmichelle]

These hatched out yesterday they are svart hona x olive egger their legs have a greenish tent to the black and they both have rose combs.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Personally my Ayam Cemani isn't bad. Skittish as all get out, but that means he won't try anything with me.

With Ayams though, you should check their mouths before you buy them. It's an important part for their "standard" and should be dark, not pink

 

[Jennc-123]

These hatched out yesterday they are svart hona x olive egger their legs have a greenish tent to the black and they both have rose combs.

I love my svart honas. Very broody though. I have a beautiful black hen with a rose comb, pretty sure mom was Wyandotte