- Thread starter
- #71
Can you breed brothers and sisters? I have some ADORABLE Dominque / RIR crosses that I'm quite fond of.
Traci
Traci
Final Pathology Report Results
- Thread starter tgperg
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #72
Hey, guys, I don't know if anyone is still following this, but I just talked to Dr. Mike R. Pruitt, D.V.M. with the USDA. He says they have had some success with eradicating, not just treating, but eradicating MG from flocks by treating with tetracycline at 800 mg / gallon in the water for 21 days. I'm going to give it a shot. Can't hurt, right?
Traci
Traci
Brother to sister is not the best way to go, though not absolute taboo, as some folks think. The best is mother to son or to grandson, father to daughter or granddaughter. Half brother to half sister is better than full brother and sister. When you do full siblings, bad trait genes they both share may hit you square in the face pretty quickly since the kids are getting it full on from both sides of the family. If you have full brother and sister that are fabulous breed examples and you breed them, you may get more fabulous examples of the breed, but you'd have to do it and assess what you're getting.
Traci, I have my doubts about the actual eradication of carriers by tetracycline, but I'm not a vet so I really don't know. If you're going to keep the birds, can't hurt to try.
Traci, I have my doubts about the actual eradication of carriers by tetracycline, but I'm not a vet so I really don't know. If you're going to keep the birds, can't hurt to try.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #74
Quote:
I do have a half brother half sister pair to these. They share the same father but different mothers. At this point I'll probably just let everything grow up and see what happens. I don't know if the eradication will work either. But Dr. Pruitt says that they've had it work in some flocks. The worst that can happen is I'll be out a few weeks of work and money for antibiotics. Flock will still stay closed. But at least I would be able to keep my birds and they'd be healthy, if it worked. Not sure how to assess whether it DID actually work.
Traci
I do have a half brother half sister pair to these. They share the same father but different mothers. At this point I'll probably just let everything grow up and see what happens. I don't know if the eradication will work either. But Dr. Pruitt says that they've had it work in some flocks. The worst that can happen is I'll be out a few weeks of work and money for antibiotics. Flock will still stay closed. But at least I would be able to keep my birds and they'd be healthy, if it worked. Not sure how to assess whether it DID actually work.
Traci
I am so sorry to hear about your birds. My thoughts are with you. My EVIL thoughts are with that horrible excuse for a human who sold you sick animals. Shame on him/her. But thank you for being so kind and loving to your flock.
- Thread starter
- #76
Quote:
Aww. That's very sweet. Thank you. And thanks to EVERYONE who's been so supportive and helpful on this thread. I have to confess, I've had a few thoughts that were less than Christian toward that man.
Traci
Aww. That's very sweet. Thank you. And thanks to EVERYONE who's been so supportive and helpful on this thread. I have to confess, I've had a few thoughts that were less than Christian toward that man.
Traci
I wanted to reply to the original post earlier. This subject is apparently a sensitive subject, so if anyone reads this please be mindful of that. The reason I waited is that I gave up three birds for an examination to the State Poultry Vet. She has been very helpful, and over the course of the week I have been recieving results.
First of all, the reason I decided to do this. Some time ago, I brought in some birds to my property. I was not as aware of how common poultry diseases are (especially MG and MS). Still common sense told me to quarantine. Either my quarantine was not effective, or I brought a problem home on my person. Against my better judgement I brought home birds from a less than ideal poultry yard. Either from this or some unknown cause within a month birds started showing signs of illness. I lost two hens, and others began to rale and sneeze. I treated with antibiotics, and the symptoms subsided. I did cull a few birds. For the rest of the year everything seamed fine. I did notice some rough shell eggs though. Then I did not know that this could be a symptom of a pass infection and a possible carrier of disease. That spring I gave to a friend what I thought were healthy birds. Within a week of the move a hen started the rales and sneezes. After some study, I found out what i should have known before.
I had to confront this friend with the uncomftorable situation of his birds being carriers. He had been planning on getting some Turkeys, so I asked him to let me cull the birds before the problem went any farther. To make matters worse his wife took a liking to these birds. I practised poor management and the consequences spread past myself. First my quarantine was not effective, I visited an over populated and poorly kept poultry yard, brought birds home from this place, and from a lack of education I passed the problem on to someone else. It is imperative that we should practise excellent disease management. Personally I failed my friend and my birds.
In the mean time I made improvements to my set up, and started over with every thing being disinfected. This year I aquired some nice birds from a great person. At 10 wks. + the birds started shaking there heads and head scratching. Ofcourse being paranoid that the problem was persisting I began to get a little panicky. I called the State Poultry Vet and decided to bring some birds in. I brought in one bird from each house they were being raised up in. I was mindful of the sympoms that concerned me, but the symptoms were pretty much across the board. The initial gross exam showed nothing, the blood tests showed no past infections, and the cultures (today's results) were negative except for some e. coli in the liver of one pullet. The point is that they are IB clean, MG clean, MS clean, LT clean, AF clean etc. etc.
This brings me to another point, if they are clean now it speaks well of the seller of these birds. If they are clean now, including MG free (our state vet says that MS is more common here) then I believe they can be kept clean. No one could rule out an infection brought by wild birds, etc., but it is a goal that I will shoot for and that I think is achievable.
My disease management plan will include becoming NPIP certified. This state also has an option to become MG/MS certified clean though I am told that small flock keepers do not do it because it requires testing of all of the birds initially, and all of the breeders there after. There is a cost per bird for testing. After I choose the breeders in a month or so, I will request all of the testing including the optional testing. I expect to pass the property inspection as it is. I am wrapping up a disease management plan that my family and myself will adhere to. My flock is officially closed for their protection. If the need for an outcross arrives I will attempt to find someone that will allow me to pay them to have the bird(s) certified clean. I recommend quarantines, but do not depend on them. Quarantines are most effective when the stress of the new enviroment triggers a symptomatic response. Less virulent strains of MG can remain hidden for example.
Disease management needs to be at the top of our lists. With the increase of interest in poultry, many people knowingly and not are passing around alot of infected birds. More than that they are crossing state lines. First victims are the birds, and then the owners that come to enjoy them. I did not know, but our state requires NPIP certification, and permitting to sell birds to the public. Also to send hatching eggs across State lines, or hatching eggs recieved from outside this state have to be from a certified flock. I hate big goverment, but I prefer it in this case. If this is true in our State it is in most at least.
Think your disease management plan out. Consider what is achievable, and do not be guilty as I have been. Just skim through the Disease threads, and tell me this is not a common issue for small flocks. I am CONVINCED that a more common cause of these problems are poultry keepers rather than wild birds. Maybe I am wrong. but we will see. Anyone interested in my successes or failures concerning this goal is welcome to PM me. I will share the actual results.
In the time being there are alot of disease factories selling birds and hatching eggs (that can carry at rates of 5%+ or -). Be mindful of your purchase. You may be surprised who it could be.
First of all, the reason I decided to do this. Some time ago, I brought in some birds to my property. I was not as aware of how common poultry diseases are (especially MG and MS). Still common sense told me to quarantine. Either my quarantine was not effective, or I brought a problem home on my person. Against my better judgement I brought home birds from a less than ideal poultry yard. Either from this or some unknown cause within a month birds started showing signs of illness. I lost two hens, and others began to rale and sneeze. I treated with antibiotics, and the symptoms subsided. I did cull a few birds. For the rest of the year everything seamed fine. I did notice some rough shell eggs though. Then I did not know that this could be a symptom of a pass infection and a possible carrier of disease. That spring I gave to a friend what I thought were healthy birds. Within a week of the move a hen started the rales and sneezes. After some study, I found out what i should have known before.
I had to confront this friend with the uncomftorable situation of his birds being carriers. He had been planning on getting some Turkeys, so I asked him to let me cull the birds before the problem went any farther. To make matters worse his wife took a liking to these birds. I practised poor management and the consequences spread past myself. First my quarantine was not effective, I visited an over populated and poorly kept poultry yard, brought birds home from this place, and from a lack of education I passed the problem on to someone else. It is imperative that we should practise excellent disease management. Personally I failed my friend and my birds.
In the mean time I made improvements to my set up, and started over with every thing being disinfected. This year I aquired some nice birds from a great person. At 10 wks. + the birds started shaking there heads and head scratching. Ofcourse being paranoid that the problem was persisting I began to get a little panicky. I called the State Poultry Vet and decided to bring some birds in. I brought in one bird from each house they were being raised up in. I was mindful of the sympoms that concerned me, but the symptoms were pretty much across the board. The initial gross exam showed nothing, the blood tests showed no past infections, and the cultures (today's results) were negative except for some e. coli in the liver of one pullet. The point is that they are IB clean, MG clean, MS clean, LT clean, AF clean etc. etc.
This brings me to another point, if they are clean now it speaks well of the seller of these birds. If they are clean now, including MG free (our state vet says that MS is more common here) then I believe they can be kept clean. No one could rule out an infection brought by wild birds, etc., but it is a goal that I will shoot for and that I think is achievable.
My disease management plan will include becoming NPIP certified. This state also has an option to become MG/MS certified clean though I am told that small flock keepers do not do it because it requires testing of all of the birds initially, and all of the breeders there after. There is a cost per bird for testing. After I choose the breeders in a month or so, I will request all of the testing including the optional testing. I expect to pass the property inspection as it is. I am wrapping up a disease management plan that my family and myself will adhere to. My flock is officially closed for their protection. If the need for an outcross arrives I will attempt to find someone that will allow me to pay them to have the bird(s) certified clean. I recommend quarantines, but do not depend on them. Quarantines are most effective when the stress of the new enviroment triggers a symptomatic response. Less virulent strains of MG can remain hidden for example.
Disease management needs to be at the top of our lists. With the increase of interest in poultry, many people knowingly and not are passing around alot of infected birds. More than that they are crossing state lines. First victims are the birds, and then the owners that come to enjoy them. I did not know, but our state requires NPIP certification, and permitting to sell birds to the public. Also to send hatching eggs across State lines, or hatching eggs recieved from outside this state have to be from a certified flock. I hate big goverment, but I prefer it in this case. If this is true in our State it is in most at least.
Think your disease management plan out. Consider what is achievable, and do not be guilty as I have been. Just skim through the Disease threads, and tell me this is not a common issue for small flocks. I am CONVINCED that a more common cause of these problems are poultry keepers rather than wild birds. Maybe I am wrong. but we will see. Anyone interested in my successes or failures concerning this goal is welcome to PM me. I will share the actual results.
In the time being there are alot of disease factories selling birds and hatching eggs (that can carry at rates of 5%+ or -). Be mindful of your purchase. You may be surprised who it could be.
gjensen, thank you for weighing in with your experience, sad though it was. You have valuable knowledge now to share with the membership and I hope they will listen to what you have to say here.
pips&peeps
There is no "I" in Ameraucana
Quote:
It is great that you are "clean", and are on your way to getting NPIP certified. However, there is no MS/MG clean status for Subpart E (backyard and exhibition poultry) in the NPIP program. Your State may have some kind of individual status, but there is not one for NPIP.
It is great that you are "clean", and are on your way to getting NPIP certified. However, there is no MS/MG clean status for Subpart E (backyard and exhibition poultry) in the NPIP program. Your State may have some kind of individual status, but there is not one for NPIP.
pips&peeps :
Quote:
It is great that you are "clean", and are on your way to getting NPIP certified. However, there is no MS/MG clean status for Subpart E (backyard and exhibition poultry) in the NPIP program. Your State may have some kind of individual status, but there is not one for NPIP.
If you refer to the fifth paragraph, second sentence you will see that I said that the STATE ALSO had a program. The world "also" implies "in addition to", therefore no correction is necessary; though the attempt was appreciated.
Quote:
It is great that you are "clean", and are on your way to getting NPIP certified. However, there is no MS/MG clean status for Subpart E (backyard and exhibition poultry) in the NPIP program. Your State may have some kind of individual status, but there is not one for NPIP.
If you refer to the fifth paragraph, second sentence you will see that I said that the STATE ALSO had a program. The world "also" implies "in addition to", therefore no correction is necessary; though the attempt was appreciated.
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