First Run of Cornish Cross Meat Birds and Super Excited!

[PlaidBattleAxe]

I have to corral mine to get into the pen at night too 75% go right in at dusk and the others I have to herd into place. Still haven't caught any of the raccoons. At all. But maybe they've been shot by someone else (heard a few random shots go off during the day earlier this week, but it's not uncommon as all my neighbors are farmers). I'll keep a vigilant eye when I'm out at dusk, or for signs of them in my trash. And I'll keep traps.
DRalphie----your post the other day made me laugh out loud. It wasn't funny at all your misfortune, but you had a great way of writing it out that it was just like something in a book or a movie (I think Linda said that). I feel your pain with the no coffee!! If I don't get my caffeine in the am I feel like everything else has a tendency to go south. Great writing though

I'm losing my birds randomly since the raccoon attack. They suddenly gasp and die, or go into this horrendous seizure type activity. This morning I let my CX out, and they did their normal "chirp and rush" and dug into the food. I grabbed their waterer to refill it and as I was walking back to the yard to set it down, I heard a screech and flapping and saw one of my cx on his back in the pen (he was outside with the others initially) and flapping wildly and screeching, his neck contorted and he "seized" and died. It all happened in a matter of seconds. I have no idea what is wrong with my birds or what I am doing wrong. THey are all healthy and happy and free ranging and growing and follow me like tumbleweeds. Then once every few days one will die. I'm down to 15 birds. I don't know if this is a sign I should cull them now... I don't want them to suffer. But I swear, they don't appear to be suffering. They are happy and hungry and active (they sun and dirt bathe a lot more than race about the yard, but they still do run around and chase each other/bugs etc).

 

[KCMOLisa]

I am so sorry, Plaid! I can't believe this is still happening to you! I know some states have a place that you can send a bird for a necropsy. They have programs like this to make sure some kind of disease isn't spreading throughout their state. You send the bird in and they can tell you why it died. It will probably be too late for this batch, but at least you would know what is going on.

 

[duluthralphie]

If I recall correctly your birds are 8 weeks old.


I am afraid you should send them to camp now. My chicks ( hatched august 1st) fed lower protein feed and greatly limited have grown by leaps and bounds in last 2 weeks.


They are not very tall, but they are wide. They waddle and are looking like they need to go to camp, too. Mine have been free range or in a huge pen simulating free range since 2 weeks old. When I put them to bed, I worry some of the bigger ones are going to have heart attacks on me. However, because of how active they are and how much I have for them to do, I am hoping to get more time with them.


If I have one or two die on me, the rest will go to camp the next day. Last time when I lost one, two days in a row, I sent them to camp.




I want to keep 4 of these back and try and keep them over winter. I will severely limit their food. I know my chances of keeping them to summer is slim. I should have decided on the 4 I wanted 3 weeks ago and separated them then. I will take the 4 smallest.


I have given them more feed in the last 2 weeks, because I got scared they would not be ready to send to camp by Mid-October. I was wrong. Next spring I will get more of these cuties and not have the time restraints I am under now.
I think I am on the right track with these birds, I just think I need to keep limiting the feed on those I want for eggs and baby “frogs”.
I am planning on selling most of these and the people buying them want 3-4 pound chickens, I have already told them to expect 4-6 pound birds.


Now back to your question, Yep, time to put them on the bus to freezer camp...


Most likely heart attacks is the cause of death.

 

[JessicaThistle]

That is terrible Plaid. I think I would send a bird off for necropsy if I were you to see if you can find the reason for your loss. I necropsied my last bird that died myself. She was a runt and was half the size of the rest of them. She was active and ran around with the rest. She didn't put up with them pushing her away at the trough or anything. Then all of a sudden, she looked listless. When I watched her at the trough she pecked at the food but didn't actually eat any. It was the weirdest thing and after bringing her in to the "chicken hospital" and trying to fix her up, she passed. Then I took her to the "chicken morgue" aka kitchen counter and cut her open. All of her organs were healthy. There was fluid in the body cavity and what appeared to be unoxygenated blood from the heart. I also saw veining and swelling in her intestine which could have been coccidiosis. Either heart attack or cocci? I think she just wasn't strong enough to fight. I have 25 happy, healthy guys left.

Ralph, it's funny that yours are short and waddley. Mine are tall and seem much thinner than the last. I will try to a video tomorrow..or wait...later today if I have time. I think I'll do my random weights too since I don't think I'll have on Monday.

What causes them to have heart attacks?

 

[duluthralphie]

I think it is in the genetics of the bird. They are not "designed" to have long lives. They are heavy for their "size". When anything gains weight at the rate these do heart problems, diabetes, bad joints etc become a problem.

If you add these "risk factors" with a genetic heart problem, this happens. Fluid in the cavity is called "ascites" it is akin to fluid build up in the legs of people with bad hearts.

If a person is lucky and has good family health history they may live to be 95 and be overweight, but the science and odds are against them. Beings over weight I do not find this comforting. By severely limiting the calorie intake you can improve on this, The downside is like my CX's and as soon as you give them the opportunity they will gain the weight back. ( which is why I have the worlds most bland boring diet)

Metabolizing as many calories as these babies do is just rough on the body, Exercise helps but it is not a cure all.

Just my take from my education and studies, not scientifically proven. However, in consulting with my brother, who has his PHD in biology, who knows something about this kind of stuff and agrees with me.

 

[PlaidBattleAxe]

I necropsied the one that I had to kill myself (had a HARD time with it, took me about 15 minutes to get up the nerve to actually swing the hatchet). He had fluid around his heart. Pericardial effusion is what it looked like. He also had an enormous gallbladder. Easily the size of my entire thumb. It would make sense that he was dying and short of breath with the fluid around his heart. Unsure of what caused it in the first place, but he definitely was in heart failure. The one who passed yesterday didn't have any abnormal looking organs at all, with the exception of a modestly large gallbladder. Heart was good, liver was good. Intestines and everything good. Just the gallbladder again. I need to google further, but I'm unfamiliar with what causes gallbladder issues with birds. I know all about people and gallbladder issues, but they haven't been overeating, eating trash/debris, or been avoiding food. The one that I had to end was the only one I've found with heart issues. As I try and get the rest of my flock through this week to Sunday the 28th (if another one dies, I'll probably just process them all to avoid any suffering to the birds) which is our scheduled processing day.
I love these birds, but I'm going to change these things this spring with the next batch:
1)They will be in a bigger pen upon arrival, no more kiddie pool---zipties are my new best friend
2) I will start save-a-chick and ACV upon arrival AND fermented feed off the bat
3) BIG POINT----I will not use the same hatchery. I will try Meyers next time.
4) They will be outside (with outdoor heat lamp as needed) by 3 weeks at the latest, likely sooner at 2 weeks, esp since at night I can supplement heat
5) FREE RANGING FROM THE START.

This is the best thread and support group out there for this. I'm going to have a rough time with ending them. If I could keep them to adult hood I would, but seeing all of these health problems develop, I know that it would be impossible for me and this batch. I've given them the best that I have and will continue to improve for the next batch of chicks. I just feel like a failure a little, for the problems that are going on with my birds now. DH is adamant that we try a new hatchery. I ordered from one in PA, thought it would help with shipping that way. They had good prices, and I hadn't read any bad reviews (there were actually only 2 reviews that I could find, and that should've seemed odd to me but it didn't) and I was so excited about getting my chicks that I went with them. I should've gone with Meyers. Turns out the one I got chicks from supplies the factories with the chicks raised for commercial meat. I should've gone with a place that supplies smaller farms/hobbyist people like myself. I didn't realize that until after I'd ordered my chicks. THat is my fault, but once I had the chicks ordered, I figured---hey at least they didn't wind up in a 1x1 crate and they would have a great life with me. I do think it may have a hand in what might be genetically wrong with my birds, if that is honestly a factor. Maybe it is just me and being new at this. My layers are doing great and I was able to save my roo when he was dying from an impacted crop. So I'd like to think it's something beyond my control with why they're dying randomly. Like DRalphie said, maybe it's just genetics?

If nothing else, I'm going to continue to give them my best and make what time of this week that they have left, a good one.

Lisa----I agree. If I wind up losing a bunch at one go, I will definitely be looking into testing.

 

[duluthralphie]

Plaid, I could not agree more with everything you said. This was my first year with these things. My second batch. They are such personable birds so easy to love.

Next year, I hope to get three batches starting earlier and changing what I do more yet.

Maybe for me a cross to a rainbow of other older style meat bird maybe the answer.

I am also glad for a thread like this were we can bounce ideas and problems off one another...

Next weekend is likely to be a sad day here too.

 

[KCMOLisa]

I got mine from Cackle. Granted, they're only 3 weeks old now, but I still have all 25 and they're all looking good. Plaid, I think all your ideas for next time sound great. I gave mine plain yogurt and mashed up egg yolks for the first week to give them some good probiotics/extra protein, and I think it gave them a good start.

The lady at the hatchery did tell me specifically not to use Sav-A-Chick for the first 2-3 days. She said that when they first arrive, they are really thirsty and usually drink a ton of water. If they drink too much water with Sav-A-Chick in it, they could OD on sodium, essentially. She recommended Nutridrench instead. I used it on one chick I had in the chicken ER the first two or three days. I was sure she wasn't going to make it because she wouldn't stand up or hold her head up at all, and she pulled through.

I completely agree with you guys that processing day will be HARD. I still have a few weeks to go, and I'm already upset about it. I didn't think I was going to fall for these guys like I have after hearing all the stories about them, but they really make me smile every time I go out there to check on them!

 

[duluthralphie]

KCMOLisa, Yogurt and mashed up egg yolks, GOOD IDEA!


Are the egg hard boiled or just raw yolk mixed into the yogurt? I like that Idea for the first few days, It would not take much because they et so little then.

 

[JessicaThistle]

I think when we decide to take on a batch of these birds, it is important to make sure that we can learn everything we can about them and change accordingly with each batch. I also think that we need not beat ourselves up when we have random loss when we are obviously do everything right. So many people don't even want to attempt to raise these birds because of the stigma attached to them. I personally absolutely love them! I would keep this batch forever if I could. They are a delightful group and if I had a camera every time they have done something that people say this breed can never do I may be able to start to change that stigma.

The main thing that I have learned this round: Free range all day! I was so worried about losing my last birds to predators that i only free ranged when I was there to watch. Now I let those buggers out and just leave them be. I love looking out and seeing white puffs spread from one end of the pasture to the other.

They have gone through the fence to visit the neighbors on both sides. But all it takes is for me to walk out towards them and they shimmy back through and run to me.

I'm still not convinced on the fermented feed, or the acv even though I have used it often. I am absolutely convinced that if you can get ahold of fallen fruit, (apples, plums) you will have some super happy birds.

I am also absolutely convinced that zip ties ARE a girl's best friend.