First Run of Cornish Cross Meat Birds and Super Excited!

[hellbender]

That green chicken meat syndrome is a complete turn-off to me and I couldn't eat one of those birds before I saw the pictures. For me, possum road kill would be far easier to get down than any of those commercial Cornish X birds, bought from Walmart or from a friend.

I do have a big pullet that is 50% Dark Cornish and 50% CCX but she is big but NOT fat and also very healthy and active. WE're going to cover her with a fine big NN cock bird and it's been pretty well agreed that we will NEVER have anything like a standard Cornish X on the property. Can anyone imagine how many people have roasted some of those 'GREEN' birds and fed them to their families? Completely sickening to think about it.
Jason

 

[Molpet]

another article on green chicken.. says it can be a pH issue too... I wonder if ACV would help since it is supposed to help keep a normal pH in people??? Just a thought.. although what I put in the water and FF probably would not be enough to make a difference since they free range for most of their food and drink from the creek.

Several studies have been conducted to establish directly or indirectly the main causes of PSE-like condition in poultry [15,29]. These studies can be divided into two categories: those evaluating the role exerted by genetic selection and those concerning the effect of environmental factors. As for genetics, it has been shown that selection for body weight or muscle development has induced histological and biochemical modifications of the muscle tissue, which can be related with PSE-like condition [11]. Numerous studies conducted evidenced that modern rapidly growing strains of meat poultry exhibited an elevated incidence of spontaneous or idiopathic myopathy and an increased susceptibility to stress-induced myopathy [30,31]. These pathologies are attributable to alterations in intracellular calcium homeostasis [31,32] and consequent changes in sarcolemmal integrity and may result from excessive myofiber hypertrophy and inadequate development of support tissues and vascular supply [33,34]. These authors stated that these myopathies may have profound implications for meat quality and the incidence of specific conditions such as PSE-like meat. It should also be mentioned that some recent studies did not identify any antagonism between growth rate or muscle development and breast meat quality parameters such as water retention and processing ability [14]. In chickens, Berri et al. [35] suggested that selection for increased muscle yields and against fat deposition could exert cumulative effects on muscle metabolism, decreasing glycogen storage and thereby reducing the extent of post mortem acidification. As a consequence of higher ultimate pH, the WHC and processing ability of the meat was improved. Also in turkeys, Werner et al. [36] stated that greater body weight and the larger muscle fibers of the fast growing strains had no negative impact on the post mortem muscle-to-meat transition process and the incidence of degenerated fibers or of haemorrhages.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277097/

 

[cyborg]

This green muscle thing, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Never seen it. If it is from overfeeding or growing too fast, how come Wallyworld chicken doesn't have it? I can't imagine the meatfarm chicken is freeranged or exercised in any way, and I'm also fairly sure they feed them as much as possible. They are the ones that developed those "feeding guideline" charts after all. Batch #1 could be butchered next week, but I had planned on running them a wee bit longer. Will select out a couple for mad science breeding projects, but the main focus is still stocking the freezer.

I want to know how they find it finding during processing, unless they are talking about parts? http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/3142/deep-pectoral-myopathy-green-muscle-disease-in-broilers/
Currently, the condition is a major challenge to the poultry industry, in part because it does not appear to have an impact on bird health in the broiler house and, therefore, usually goes undetected until processing. In addition, it may randomly affect part or all of one or both tenders. It has proven difficult to predict if, or how many, green tenders will occur in a flock at processing.
However, green tenders have no appeal to the consuming public and are, therefore, removed from the food supply when the birds are processed. This creates an economic loss to the industry because it affects the most valuable part of the carcass (the breast) (Bianchi et al., 2006). While the number of birds displaying Green Muscle Disease is currently small compared to the overall number of birds processed, that number is increasing, and indications are that incidence of the disease may continue to increase as breast meat yield continues to be a primary focus of the industry and broilers are taken to heavier market weights.

That green chicken meat syndrome is a complete turn-off to me and I couldn't eat one of those birds before I saw the pictures. For me, possum road kill would be far easier to get down than any of those commercial Cornish X birds, bought from Walmart or from a friend. I do have a big pullet that is 50% Dark Cornish and 50% CCX but she is big but NOT fat and also very healthy and active. WE're going to cover her with a fine big NN cock bird and it's been pretty well agreed that we will NEVER have anything like a standard Cornish X on the property. Can anyone imagine how many people have roasted some of those 'GREEN' birds and fed them to their families? Completely sickening to think about it. Jason

I imagine they only find the green tenders if they are cutting up the carcass for breasts, thighs, etc. I guess I'll never buy one of those rotisserie chickens again!

 

[duluthralphie]

another article on green chicken.. says it can be a pH issue too... I wonder if ACV would help since it is supposed to help keep a normal pH in people??? Just a thought.. although what I put in the water and FF probably would not be enough to make a difference since they free range for most of their food and drink from the creek.

Several studies have been conducted to establish directly or indirectly the main causes of PSE-like condition in poultry [15,29]. These studies can be divided into two categories: those evaluating the role exerted by genetic selection and those concerning the effect of environmental factors. As for genetics, it has been shown that selection for body weight or muscle development has induced histological and biochemical modifications of the muscle tissue, which can be related with PSE-like condition [11]. Numerous studies conducted evidenced that modern rapidly growing strains of meat poultry exhibited an elevated incidence of spontaneous or idiopathic myopathy and an increased susceptibility to stress-induced myopathy [30,31]. These pathologies are attributable to alterations in intracellular calcium homeostasis [31,32] and consequent changes in sarcolemmal integrity and may result from excessive myofiber hypertrophy and inadequate development of support tissues and vascular supply [33,34]. These authors stated that these myopathies may have profound implications for meat quality and the incidence of specific conditions such as PSE-like meat. It should also be mentioned that some recent studies did not identify any antagonism between growth rate or muscle development and breast meat quality parameters such as water retention and processing ability [14]. In chickens, Berri et al. [35] suggested that selection for increased muscle yields and against fat deposition could exert cumulative effects on muscle metabolism, decreasing glycogen storage and thereby reducing the extent of post mortem acidification. As a consequence of higher ultimate pH, the WHC and processing ability of the meat was improved. Also in turkeys, Werner et al. [36] stated that greater body weight and the larger muscle fibers of the fast growing strains had no negative impact on the post mortem muscle-to-meat transition process and the incidence of degenerated fibers or of haemorrhages.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277097/

Once again you are attributing magical properties to fermented feed that are not there.

Fermented feed has a lower PH than regular feed.



Assessment of the Performance of Chicks Fed with Cereal Wastes Enriched with Single Cell Protein - Candida tropicalis

Not a great university but a university non the less.



cent (%). Feed Type

Moisture Content

Energy Value

Crude Protein

Ash Content

pH
Commercial Feed

11.7

2.6

9.4

2.7

6.4
Fermented Rice Husk

6.7

1.4

8.7

1.7

3.9
Fermented Maize Bran

9.0

3.3

8.9

5.3

3.2
Fermented Millet Bran

3.3

1.9

9.2

4.0

3.4



Table 4. Total weight gain by birds for the period. Feed Type

Net Weight of Birds
1

2

3
Commercial Feed

103.3

119.5

113.7
Fermented Rice Husk

25

35.7

39
Fermented Maize Bran

65.7

59.6

59
Fermented Millet Bran

29.9

34.7

42.9

 

[duluthralphie]

I could not get the rest to copy but:


Low pH of the fermented feeds may have also accounted for lower weight recorded in the birds fed with them as against those fed with the commercial feed. This agrees in part with observations of Akoma et al. (1999). McDonald et al. (1987) reported that poultry feeds should have a pH range of 5.8-7.0. It is suggested that calcium carbonate be added to feeds immediately after fermentation prior to drying to arrest such a situation (Akoma




Do not tell me low PH is contributing to the green meat, then say fermented feed helps that when the pH is lower than commercial feeds..


Part of my disbelieve in fermented feed is the lack of science and math needed to become a follower of this Voodoo sciences. Try to keep the claims straight when dealing with fermented feeds.

 

[Molpet]

Once again you are attributing magical properties to fermented feed that are not there.

Fermented feed has a lower PH than regular feed.



Assessment of the Performance of Chicks Fed with Cereal Wastes Enriched with Single Cell Protein - Candida tropicalis

Not a great university but a university non the less.



cent (%). Feed Type

Moisture Content

Energy Value

Crude Protein

Ash Content

pH
Commercial Feed

11.7

2.6

9.4

2.7

6.4
Fermented Rice Husk

6.7

1.4

8.7

1.7

3.9
Fermented Maize Bran

9.0

3.3

8.9

5.3

3.2
Fermented Millet Bran

3.3

1.9

9.2

4.0

3.4



Table 4. Total weight gain by birds for the period. Feed Type

Net Weight of Birds
1

2

3
Commercial Feed

103.3

119.5

113.7
Fermented Rice Husk

25

35.7

39
Fermented Maize Bran

65.7

59.6

59
Fermented Millet Bran

29.9

34.7

42.9

wish they would have compared commercial feed fermented.or the 3FF un f.. correct me if I am wrong but the 3 ff they compared are not complete proteins or complete nutritionally wise either...

 

[Molpet]

I could not get the rest to copy but:


Low pH of the fermented feeds may have also accounted for lower weight recorded in the birds fed with them as against those fed with the commercial feed. This agrees in part with observations of Akoma et al. (1999). McDonald et al. (1987) reported that poultry feeds should have a pH range of 5.8-7.0. It is suggested that calcium carbonate be added to feeds immediately after fermentation prior to drying to arrest such a situation (Akoma




Do not tell me low PH is contributing to the green meat, then say fermented feed helps that when the pH is lower than commercial feeds..


Part of my disbelieve in fermented feed is the lack of science and math needed to become a follower of this Voodoo sciences. Try to keep the lies straight when dealing with fermented feeds.

actually I was talking about the AVC LOL ... but some consider that Voodoo too
I have to agree that few studies have been done on either... and the ones that have been done seem to have flaws, on both sides of the issues.
we all have to do what works for us.

ETA list of human studies on fermentation

Alais, C. and G. Linden (1991). Food Biochemistry. New York, Ellis Horwood Ltd., 222 pp.

Amoa, B. and H. G. Muller (1976). "Studies on kenkey with particular reference to calcium and phytic acid." Cereal Chem 53: 365.

Anderson, J. W., D. A. Deakins, T. L. Floore, B. M. Smith and S. E. Whitis (1990). "Dietary fiber and coronary heart disease." CRC Crit. Rev. Food Sci. Nutr. 29: 95.
Betschart, A. A. (1982). "World food and nutrition problems." Cereal Food World 27: 562.
Borgstrom, G. (1968). Principals of Food Science, Vol. 2. Food Microbiology and Biochemistry. New York, Macmillan.
Bowers, J. (1992). Food Theory and Applications. New York, Macmillan Publishing Co., 777 pp.
Bushuk, W. and E. N. Larter (1980). "Triticale: production, chemistry and technology." Adv. Cereal Sci. and Technol. 3: 115.
Cahvan, U. D., J. K. Chavan and S. S. Kadam (1988). "Effect of fermentation on soluble proteins and in vitro protein digestibility of sorghum, green gram and sorghum-green gram blends." J. Food Sci. 53: 1574.
Campbell-Platt, G. (1994). "Fermented foods- a world perspective." Food Research International 27: 253.
Chaven, J. K. and S. S. Kadam (1989). "Nutritional improvement of cereals by fermentation." CRC Critical Reviews in Food Science and Technology 28(5): 349.
Cheeke, P. R. (1976). "Nutritional and physiological properties of saponins." Nutr. Rep. Intern. 13: 315.
Chompreeda, P. T. and M. L. Fields (1984). "Effect of heat and fermentation on amino acids, flatus producing compounds, lipid oxidation and trypsininhibitor in blends of soybean and corn meal." J. Food Sci. 49: 563.
Chompreeda, P. T. and M. L. Fields (1981). "Effects of heat and fermentation on the extractability of minerals from soybean meal and corn meal blends." J. Food Sci. 49: 566.
Cook, P. E. (1994). "Fermented foods as biotechnological resources." Food Research International 27: 309.
El-Tinay, A. H., A. M. Abdel-Gadir and M. El-Hidai (1979). "Sorghum fermented kisra bread. I. Nutritive value of kisra." J. Sci. Food Agric. 30: 859.
Eliasson, A.-C. and K. Larsson (1993). Cereals in Breadmaking. New York, Marcel Dekker, Inc., 376 pp.
Feldman, M. and E. R. Sears (1981). "The wild gene resources of wheat." Scientific American: 98.
Fox, P.F. and D.M. Mulvihill (1982) In Advances in Cereal Science and Technology, Vol.5, Y. Pomeranz, ed., AACC, St. Paul, MN, Chapter 3.
Furon, R. (1958). Manuel de Prehistorie Generale. Paris, Payor.
Haard, N. F. and G. Chism, Eds. (1996). Characteristics of edible plant tissues. Food Chemistry. New York, Marcel Dekker, Inc., pp.943-1011.
Hamad, A. M. and M. L. Fields (1979). "Evaluation of the protein quality and available lysine of germinated and fermented cereal." J. Food Sci. 44: 456.
Hoseney, R. C., K. F. Finney, Y. Pomeranz and M. D. Shogren (1971). "Functional (breadmaking) and biochemical properties of wheat flour components. VIII." Cereal Chem. 48: 191.
Izquerdo-Pulido, M. I., T. A. Haard, J. Hung and N. F. Haard (1994). "Oryzacystatin and other protease inhibitors in rice grain: Potential use in preventing proteolysis in surimi and other fish products." J. Agric. Food Chem. 42: 616.
Ko, S.D. (1985). "Growth and toxin production of Pseudomonas cocovenenans, the so-called "Bongkrek Bacteria." Asian Food J. 1:78.
MacRitchie, F. (1992). "Physicochemical properties of wheat proteins in relation to functionality." Adv. Protein Chem. 36: 2.
McGee, H. (1984). On Food and Cooking. New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 684 pp.Meikle, S.M. and D.H. Scarisbrick (1994). "Cereal breeding and varietal testing." British Food Journal. 96: 11.
Miller, D. D., Ed. (1996). Minerals. Food Chemistry. New York, Marcel Dekker, Inc., pp. 617- 650.
Morrison, W. R. (1978). "Cereal lipids." Adv. Cereal Sci. Technol. 2: 221.
Morrison, W. R., T. P. Milligan and M. N. Azudin (1984). "A relationship between the amylose and lipid contents of starches from diploid cereals." J. Cereal Sci. 2: 257.
Nakazato, M., S. Morozumi, K. Saito, K. Fujiinuma, T. Nishimi and N. Kasai (1990). "Interconversion of aflatoxin B1 and aflatoxicol by several fungi." Applied Environmental Microbiology 56: 1465.
Newman, R.K. and D.S. Sands (1984). "Nutritive value of corn fermented with lysine excreting Lactobacillus." Nutr. Rep. Int. 30: 1287.
Nout, M. J. R. (1994). "Fermented foods and food safety." Food Research International 27: 291.
Pariza, M. W., Ed. (1996). Toxic substances. Food Chemistry. New York, Marcel Dekker, pp. 825-840.
Perten, H. (1983). "Practical experiencein processing and use of millet and sorghum in Senegal and Sudan." Cereal Foods world 28: 680.
Phillips, R. D. (1997). "Nutritional quality of cereals and legume storage proteins." Food Technology 51(5): 62.
Pomeranz, Y. and D. B. Bechtel (1978). Structure of cereal grains as related to end-use properties. Postharvest Biology and Biotechnology. H. O. Hultin and M. Milner, eds. Westport, CN, Food and Nutrition Press, Inc., pp. 244-266.
Pomeranz, Y. and O. K. Chung (1978). "Interactions of lipids with protein and carbohydrates in breadmaking." J. Am. Oil Chem. Soc. 55: 285.
Raven, P. H., R. F. Evert and S. Eichorn (1986). Biology of Plants. New York, Worth Publ., Inc.
Reddy, N. R. and M. D. Pierson (1994). "Reduction in antinutritional and toxic components in plant foods by fermentation." Food Research International 27: 281.
Reddy, N. R., M. D. Pierson, S. K. Sathe and D. K. Salunkhe (1989). Phytates in Cereals and Legumes. Boca Raton, FL, CRC Press.
Rozsa, T. A., Ed. (1976). Rye milling. Rye: Production, Chemistry and Technology. St. Paul, MN, American Association of Cereal Chemists.
Salunkhe, D. K., J. K. Chavan and S. S. Kadam (1990). Dietary Tannins: Consequences and Remedies. Boca Raton, FL, CRC Press.
Shellenberger, J. A. (1980). "Advances in milling technology." Adv. Cereal Sci. and Technol. 3: 227.
Shewry, P. R. and B. J. Mifflin (1985). "Seed storage proteins of economically important cereals." Adv. Cereal Sci. Technol. 7: 1.
Shiraiwa, M., K. Shigemitsu, M. Shimoyamada, K. Harada and K. Okubo (1991). "Composition and structure of group A saponin in soybean seed." Agric. Biol. Chem. 55: 315.
Simoons, F. J. (1982). Coeliac Disease as a Geographic Problem. Food Nutrition and evolution.
Steinkraus, K. H. (1994). "Nutritional significance of fermented foods." Food Research International 27: 259.
Steinkraus, K. H., Ed. (1995). Handbook of Indigenous Fermented Foods. New York, Marcel Dekker, Inc., 776 pp.
Torre, M. and A. R. Rodriquez (1991). "Effects of dietary fiber and phytic acid on mineral availability." CRC Crit. Rev. Food Sci. Nutr. 30: 1.
Tucker, G.A. and L.F.J. Woods (1995). Enzymes in Food Processing Chapman and Hall, New York, 319 pp.
Wang, H. L., J. B. Vespa and C. W. Hesseltine (1972). "Release of bound trypsin inhibitors in soybeans by Rhizopus oigosporus." J. Nutr. 102: 1495.
Wang, Y. D. and M. L. Fields (1978). "Feasibility of home fermentation to improve the amino acid balance of corn meal." J. Food Sci. 43: 1104.
Wiesner, H., W. Seilmeier and H.-D. Belitz (1980). "Vergleichende Untersuchungen uber partielle Aminosauresequenzen von Prolaminen und Glutelinen verschriedener Getreidearten." Z. Lebensm. Unters. Forsch. 170: 17.
Wood, B. J. B. (1994). "Technology transfer and indigenous fermented foods." Food Research International 27: 269.
Woods, P. J., J. Weisz and W. Mahn (1991). “Molecular characteristics of cereal ß-glucans . II. Size exclusion chromatography for comparison of molecular weights.” Cereal Chem. 68: 530.

 

[bluto in mo]

So far all I've been able to find is to keep the birds calm and don't let them flap thir wings. I did throw 1 whole one away, due to the green. The others I did quarter out. I did find this, "

The lesion does not impair the general health of the chickens and is generally found during cut-up and deboning. The condition is not associated with any infectious or harmful substance and has no food safety concern other than affecting the aesthetic appearance of the meat.http://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/whatsnew/whatsnew_fst/whatsnew_fst_Green_Meat_in_Chickens.html

 

[Molpet]

So far all I've been able to find is to keep the birds calm and don't let them flap thir wings. I did throw 1 whole one away, due to the green. The others I did quarter out. I did find this, "

The lesion does not impair the general health of the chickens and is generally found during cut-up and deboning. The condition is not associated with any infectious or harmful substance and has no food safety concern other than affecting the aesthetic appearance of the meat.http://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/whatsnew/whatsnew_fst/whatsnew_fst_Green_Meat_in_Chickens.html

how many... out of how many, were green?

 

[bluto in mo]

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