First Time hatching eggs, egg sacks too small

[AmyLynn2374]

It has certainly been a roller coaster ride! We had another delivery today.

He was peeping internally last night, and today I woke up to find he had pipped. However, the outer membrane was tan and dry. (Again, the battle of the humidity. But, I also wonder if it was because he was late. He did well but again was another that needed some assistance. It ended up that the membrane was so thick and gummy it was wrapped around his foot and one of his toes are crooked, but its straightening out more now that he is using it. Also, one of his wings seems to be a little off than the other, but he is lifting and stretching it just fine and is doing great.

I want you to know that I named one of our chicks, Chicapee in honor of you. I would have done same for AmyLynn, but her name doesn't quite seem like a chicken name choice

Did float test on remaining eggs after he went into the brooder, and one was gone. There is still another and he was moving still, but there hasn't been an internal pip yet I guess since I don't hear any peeping. But tomorrow makes 24 days. I don't know what to do about that one.

We are really interested in getting some specific breeds and were interested in getting eggs shipped (after I get a new incubator), but I was wondering how they could be safely shipped. I read stories about detached air sacks. I would love to know how it works out for you since we are seriously considering. I was also curious if they gave refunds if they were delivered in poor conditions.

We do feel like this has been a huge learning experience for us. I believe that we experienced it all in one batch. I would never ever want to do it again or to lose so many eggs, but we now feel like we have a good grasp on the anatomy, signs of trouble, how to intervene with more confidence. We are so very grateful for the information and advice that we received from BYC and are thankful for people like you and AmyLynn that share their knowledge so patiently and compassionately.

I hope that I won't have to bug y'all any more with this last hatch. I just pray that the chickie lives, since it is past due. I pray that your next hatch goes well!!.

Thanks so much for your support and encouragement!

I hope the last one does well. If needed to can make a "sandle" for him. Let me know if you want a link for curled toes/spraddle leg that shows how to make them.

One of the guys that I helped named his first chick after me and low and behold it ended up a cockerell....lol

Shipping openes up a whole other world of problems. Expected hatch rates for shipped eggs is only 50% so if you get that you are doing well. There are many things that you can do to help increase hatch rates. Detatched air cells are common and even scrambled eggs are possible. Most individual sellers (as on ebay) have the disclaimer that nothing is guareenteed and a good share will not refund for any reason because once it leaves for shipping what happens is out of control. Now Chicappe's were just awful and any seller that would send eggs that look like that, are unscrupulous and I would not expect anything from them in case of refund/apology. I think the majority of sellers do send nice fairly clean eggs and they package them well, but the postal service and shipping is hard on them.

Good luck on the last hatcher and the last egg. Hope to be able to follow your next attempt and see a much better experience for you. Congrats on the newbies.

 

[chicapee]

It has certainly been a roller coaster ride!  We had another delivery today.  He was peeping internally last night, and today I woke up to find he had pipped. However, the outer membrane was tan and dry.  (Again, the battle of the humidity.  But, I also wonder if it was because he was late.  He did well but again was another that needed some assistance.  It ended up that the membrane was so thick and gummy it was wrapped around his foot and one of his toes are crooked, but its straightening out more now that he is using it.  Also, one of his wings seems to be a little off than the other, but he is lifting and stretching it just fine and is doing great.  

I want you to know that I named one of our chicks, Chicapee in honor of you.  I would have done same for AmyLynn, but her name doesn't quite seem like a chicken name choice :cd  

Did float test on remaining eggs after he went into the brooder, and one was gone.  There is still another and he was moving still, but there hasn't been an internal pip yet I guess since I don't hear any peeping.  But tomorrow makes 24 days.  I don't know what to do about that one.

We are really interested in getting some specific breeds and were interested in getting eggs shipped (after I get a new incubator), but I was wondering how they could be safely shipped.  I read stories about detached air sacks.  I would love to know how it works out for you since we are seriously considering.  I was also curious if they gave refunds if they were delivered in poor conditions.  

We do feel like this has been a huge learning experience for us.  I believe that we experienced it all in one batch.  I would never ever want to do it again or to lose so many eggs, but we now feel like we have a good grasp on the anatomy, signs of trouble, how to intervene with more confidence.  We are so very grateful for the information and advice that we received from BYC and are thankful for people like you and AmyLynn that share their knowledge so patiently and compassionately.  

I hope that I won't have to bug y'all any more with this last hatch.  I just pray that the chickie lives, since it is past due.  I pray that your next hatch goes well!!.  

Thanks so much for your support and encouragement!

I feel very honored name a baby after me. Lol. I am glad I could help out. Amylynn and scflock started a thread called she said, he said who's right, who's wrong no one. There are many knowledgeable Hatcher's on there and it is very active, supportive. I find this thread an excellent resource and have learned alot. Maybe you can mosey on over. Time for chick picks me thinks.

 

[luvmychickenz]

Ok my incredibly knowledgeable and supportive friends, I have a question that I can't seem to find answer for. We had a second batch of 6 eggs that followed the first batch. We were incubating them outside under a light but open, as test (our natural humidity is 70-90% but they were in garage temp maintained 101 under light. . They were seeming to grow normally through day 14. Before putting in incubator day 18 couldn't see any movement. Did float test. 1 sunk, 1 completely still. The last did not rock but there was a slow spinning of egg-nothing externally causing it, so kept that egg. Nothing happening day 22 no chirping. If during float test there is no rocking but there is slow spinning does that mean chick was still viable at the time? Thanks!

 

[chicapee]

Ok my incredibly knowledgeable and supportive friends, I have a question that I can't seem to find answer for. We had a second batch of 6 eggs that followed the first batch. We were incubating them outside under a light but open, as test (our natural humidity is 70-90% but they were in garage temp maintained 101 under light. . They were seeming to grow normally through day 14. Before putting in incubator day 18 couldn't see any movement. Did float test. 1 sunk, 1 completely still. The last did not rock but there was a slow spinning of egg-nothing externally causing it, so kept that egg. Nothing happening day 22 no chirping. If during float test there is no rocking but there is slow spinning does that mean chick was still viable at the time? Thanks!

They generally rock during the float test. You could keep them through day 23. I would discard after that though. You may want to eggtopsy in order to learn.

 

[luvmychickenz]

Well, I don't know if he is going to make it but did float test earlier today and at first was slowly spinning and then believe it or not, the egg started rocking. Plus the air sac grew a little and the rest of the egg is now entirely dark filled with chick.
I realize he still may not make it, but I'm going to give it another day or 2 since he was alive on day 22.
I'm such a meddler, I know. But how frequently can you float test? Does it traumatized them that much if it is done daily? Thanks! I already want to check again in morning to see if he's still alive.

 

[luvmychickenz]

Ok, this probably is not the smartest of questions, but need to ask anyway:
What is the purpose of doing eggtopsy? Last time our chick died when he was in process of unzipping, we opened the egg and he looked perfect. Egg sac was absorbed, no bleeding, no odor, no shrink wrap, perfectly formed. I have seen several eggtopsy photos of normally developed chickens. When that happens, what else am I trying to see? Thanks for your insight.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Ok, this probably is not the smartest of questions, but need to ask anyway:
What is the purpose of doing eggtopsy? Last time our chick died when he was in process of unzipping, we opened the egg and he looked perfect. Egg sac was absorbed, no bleeding, no odor, no shrink wrap, perfectly formed. I have seen several eggtopsy photos of normally developed chickens. When that happens, what else am I trying to see? Thanks for your insight.

You get more use from eggtopsies when you have multiple eggs that don't hatch. If you have a bad hatch and you eggtopsy it can give you insight to when they died-about what day, which will help you pinpoint possibilities. Say you had a temp spike at day 17 and the eggs looked to have stopped developing at day 17, you can fairly assess that would be the cause. If all the chicks are overly wet and the eggs are still filled with excess moisture you can look at the possibility that your humidity was too high during the first 17 days and can adjust for the next hatch. If you have multiple chicks that are actually shrink wrapped, you can conclude that you had too low humidity. There are other things that guide you as well, deformities, mushy chick that can help you asses what went wrong so that you can correct it in the future. Say you know for a fact that at day 18 lockdown egg #5 was alive and moving, but when you do eggtopsies that egg appears to only be at day 14 development. You can look at temps in the bator, investigate if you have unknown cool spots. You can (if you keep records) look at egg quality/layer quality, especially if the same layer's eggs all seem to have the same fate. It can be a very useful tool in helping to better your hatching methods and tweak things.

Now if you have a good hatch and you have two or three that didn't hatch, there's a good chance that it's not going to tell you a lot. Maybe one egg was more porous and lost too much moisture causing shrink wrap after lockdown. Then you can decide if you want to risk setting eggs that were that porous. Or one didn't loose enough moisture because the shell was thicker/less porous and drown. Doing the eggtopsy will give you a clue as to what happened, but in situations such as these they will not help change anything because in most hatches there will be at least a couple that don't hatch because of egg quality that you can't control, because you need to adjust to the majority and not the minority and there are so many variables among individual eggs that it is virtually impossible to provide each individual egg with the optimal conditions.

If you have pippers that aren't hatching you can look at whether your hatch humidity is high enough, whether the membranes are too tough, is your bator vented well enough so they are getting fresh air supply, are they in the correct position?

Of course there will always be those eggtopsies that everything looks perfect and you're left with a big ? and can only conclude that the chick was just not strong enough to complete the hatch or had something going on internally that we are unable to note.

My last hatch I had 100%, but the two hatches before that I had 3 eggs in each set that failed to hatch. In one instance 2 out of the 3 were silkie eggs (I had bought an assortment form a local gal and there were 3 silkies in there.) Both were severely shrink wrapped. The one that hatched died after hatch. When she collected the eggs it was still cool and they weren't producing well (the silkies) that's why I only had 3. I conlcuded that it was the layer production and it set a new standard for me not to buy or try to hatch eggs from a hen that wasn't laying regularly. I don't know for a fact that is what happened, but logically that's the connection I made. So they can be very helpful, or they can just leave you with unanswered questions.

That's my take on doing eggtopsies.

 

[luvmychickenz]

Thanks for your thorough but simple explanation about eggtopsies: why and what to look for. I just have a hard time opening up and finding chick that looks like should have lived. I am going to do so many things differently next time and keep excellent records.
I am not sure if my little guy is alive. No pips or sounds. Is it safe to float test 2 days in row?

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Thanks for your thorough but simple explanation about eggtopsies: why and what to look for. I just have a hard time opening up and finding chick that looks like should have lived. I am going to do so many things differently next time and keep excellent records.
I am not sure if my little guy is alive. No pips or sounds. Is it safe to float test 2 days in row?

Eggtopsies aren't for everyone, but I usually recommend them if the hatcher can handle them because you can learn from them. I don't float test. I candle and if there are no internal pips and no movement I call it. Usually when you have a live active chick (at hatch time) you can feel the movement when you handle the egg. Almost a fluttering feeling. I wouldn't think it would matter floating them again if there are no pips/cracks in the shell.

 

[luvmychickenz]

If I am going to start doing this using best practices, I need to learn it seems. And to learn what went wrong so I can fix things, it seems I will have to eggtopsy-as in your face sad as it is.
AmyLynn, my husband says give up, too. I candled and cant see movement and don't feel anything. It is just that I have read some posts about some people thinking their post due chicks were dead and then surprisingly they hatched late. But, I am sure you are correct. So bummed,