Flock slowly being wiped out - possibly mareks??

[KirstieJG]

I would completely agree its very important that they develop a strong immune system but at this stage she is too weak to be exposed to anything new so antibiotics would make the difference between life and death in this case. However there is no sign at the moment of anything other than slow recovery. She rattles her beak at me when she sees me coming with her food. I gave her a little peanut butter yesterday and she loved it.

 

[rebrascora]

Here in the UK we can't just go out and buy antibiotics (not even antibiotic cream), like you can in the states, so treating a chicken with them will involve a trip to the vets and therefore they are much less likely to be used unnecessarily, I think.
It is worrying how many people here on this forum give them to their chickens in the hope it will fix them, without trying to figure out what the problem is first and whether they are appropriate. AntiBs should be a last resort and never used prophylactically in my opinion.

So pleased to read that Gloria is continuing to make slow and steady progress.

 

[centrarchid]

Bird should be walking by now. I battle cocci annually usually without using medications and birds get fluffy and dehydrated long before loosing the ability to walk. Bird appears to have tail angled over (consistent with paralysis). I battle some form of Mareks almost every year that appears to come in with migratory song birds in late fall / early winter. Not all do the stereotypical splayed leg thing. They do loose the ability walk and often have trouble keeping head up. Those that do not have legs get splayed often resume the ability to walk. Long-term prognosis for those is not good as I have never had any last more than a year as they succumb to something else.



When comes to Mareks, it does not just hit them. Clinical signs evident at least a couple of days before a bird goes down. Voice changes, exclusion from social group, disorientation and changing of roost site occur first. This requires getting to know bird and making keen observations.

 

[centrarchid]

Here in the UK we can't just go out and buy antibiotics (not even antibiotic cream), like you can in the states, so treating a chicken with them will involve a trip to the vets and therefore they are much less likely to be used unnecessarily, I think. 
It is worrying how many people here on this forum give them to their chickens in the hope it will fix them, without trying to figure out what the problem is first and whether they are appropriate. AntiBs should be a last resort and never used prophylactically in my opinion.   

So pleased to read that Gloria is continuing to make slow and steady progress.

Yes, in the US and many other parts of the world, antibiotics are used too much. Also too many people and domestic animals and globe trotting travelers just like the UK. Normally I let such sick animals fail with no treatment whatsoever. That being said once my chickens reach adulthood it is nothing for them to live a decade. Then the investment comes down to reducing stress and making so birds are in good health when first challenged by a pathogen so natural immunity kicks in

 

[KirstieJG]

Im not going to pay for the mareks test so i guess we will see how it turns out. My other birds are not at risk as they havent been exposed to gloria. Rudi's have been although her current birds are all established and well. Its true her tail is flopped and she still cannot walk but i do believe she is still very weak although it could be some paralysis its true.
She also has poor aim with her beak but i am not sure if this is still the wry neck affecting her ability to control her head movements. I understand that vitamin deficiencies can take several weeks to correct themselves.

 

[rebrascora]

@centrarchid

I agree entirely and was not specifically having a pop at the USA. It's just that the majority of people on this site seem to be in the US and talk about getting antiBs from the feedstore like buying a supplement and don't seem to realise that they are not always readily accessible like that elsewhere.

I will support sick birds whilst they are showing signs of fighting illness but I euthanize once they stop eating and I agree that promoting a strong immune system is the best action. Like you, I am seeing a very limited problem with seasonal outbreaks of Marek's but I think it is due to conditions and age of young birds that causes it to surface in Autumn in my flock rather than reinfection from wild birds.

I have consciously changed my mind a few times about whether this may be Marek's or not. The way I read the initial description of symptoms was that they were fluffed up and then staggering or lame which suggested it stemmed from weakness rather than the way I experience Marek's which is usually strong healthy young birds suddenly hobbling or floundering on the ground unable to get up. I did wonder if the high Coccidia lab result was because Marek's had compromised the immune system though. I would think that if a young bird has lost a lot of condition and been starved and dehydrated as a result of coccidiosis and been very weak, then it will take a good while to make up that up, especially if their gut has been damaged.

 

[KirstieJG]

How can i tell if she is dehydrated? She eats a lot but drinks hardly anything. The food i am giving her is very sloppy as it contains yoghurt and purreed fruit as well as liquid vitamins would this contain enough liquid though?

 

[rebrascora]

I meant that she would be dehydrated from the cocci prior to you commencing the supportive care you are now giving. I think you are doing the right thing in giving her only liquid feed and that will certainly help to rehydrate her but short of tube feeding her fluids or IV, I think it will just take time to rehydrate her system. I think tube feeding comes with risks and if it is Marek's, it will stress her and that is counter productive. She had clearly almost got to the point of no return when you took over her care but you are obviously making progress, so I would just keep doing what you are doing with the sloppy foods and make sure she has access to water if she wants it.

 

[KirstieJG]

Thank you. I really appreciate the care and advice x

 

[KirstieJG]

Quick update: she is still improving slowly. She stands for longer periods now and is starting to have better control of her neck. I definitly feel that she is over the worst.