Freak with a beak! Is this bird albino?

[beakmaster]

I really have no idea what kind of quail they are. I bought like 15 chicks last yr and was told some were tenn reds and others were japanese but one or two has tuxedo look. They are mixed all up. I will post some current pics of the flock but I have previously posted some pics of them.

 

[appps]

Can you have albino birds? So chickens?

We have a white cockatiel with pink eyes but its not actually an albino because apparently albino cockatiels always die in the shell. Rather its simply a mix of two colour variation both of which are missing one colour. Ours is simply missing both colours because of the mix making it white. One of the two colours also has pink eyes giving what looks like but isn't an albino.

I don't know if that applies to all birds but it would be strange if only cockatiel albinos didn't develop but other birds did ?

 

[Sycamore27]

Can you have albino birds? So chickens?

We have a white cockatiel with pink eyes but its not actually an albino because apparently albino cockatiels always die in the shell. Rather its simply a mix of two colour variation both of which are missing one colour. Ours is simply missing both colours because of the mix making it white. One of the two colours also has pink eyes giving what looks like but isn't an albino.

I don't know if that applies to all birds but it would be strange if only cockatiel albinos didn't develop but other birds did ?

The albino in cockatiels and parakeets that you're talking about is called lutino, they either turn out solid yellow or solid white depending on if they have one or two types of the gene. I used to know more about those genes, but it's been forever. They are actually technically albinos, just there are some forms in them that can't survive while others can.
I found several pictures of albino quail from a google search, mostly Gamble's and valley, no cots or buttons that I saw but I'm sure they're out there. And some chooks, and even albino chickens. Though from the sound of it the chickens don't tend to thrive according to those who reported having some.
Here's a brief article I found with a bit of general info of different forms of albinism. http://www.aviangenetics.com/main/albinism_leucism_explained.html
I've always found the forms of albinism pretty interesting, especially in animals with more forms of pigment than our plain ol' melanin.
Cheers,
Jessie

 

[appps]

Pretty sure I read in fact they are technically NOT albino

Here is one explanation
Let me start by saying there is no such thing as a "True Albino" cockatiel. What we call an albino cockatiel only has the phenotype (appearance) of an albino (all white feathers, pink feet, red eyes and no cheek patch). The reason it appears this way is that it is really a combination of the sex-linked Lutino mutation and the autosomal recessive Whiteface mutation. Lutino is a mutation which has affected the melanin pigment in such a way that no melanin (grey or brown coloration) is produced. Thus, a Lutino is a white or yellow bird with red eyes and an orange cheekpatch. Whiteface, however, affects the lipochrome (yellow and orange) pigment in such a way that no lipochrome is produced. Without either melanin or lipochrome, the resulting cockatiel lacks in any color and appears to be an albino. What's the difference? There's a big difference where genetic determination is concerned.

But getting sudetracked here lol my point was just does this apply to all white birds thus chickens? Who knows

 

[Sycamore27]

Pretty sure I read in fact they are technically NOT albino

Here is one explanation
Let me start by saying there is no such thing as a "True Albino" cockatiel. What we call an albino cockatiel only has the phenotype (appearance) of an albino (all white feathers, pink feet, red eyes and no cheek patch). The reason it appears this way is that it is really a combination of the sex-linked Lutino mutation and the autosomal recessive Whiteface mutation. Lutino is a mutation which has affected the melanin pigment in such a way that no melanin (grey or brown coloration) is produced. Thus, a Lutino is a white or yellow bird with red eyes and an orange cheekpatch. Whiteface, however, affects the lipochrome (yellow and orange) pigment in such a way that no lipochrome is produced. Without either melanin or lipochrome, the resulting cockatiel lacks in any color and appears to be an albino. What's the difference? There's a big difference where genetic determination is concerned.

But again does this apply to all white birds thus chickens? Who knows

The thing is, there's a difference between a form of albinism (still an albino) and a bird lacking any colors at all and being as you say a "true albino".

I have only bred snakes so I'll use that example just cause I'm better informed with it and may not be getting something.
A snake can have genes to lack red, or black,or yellow, lack both red and black, or yellow and black, or lack red black and yellow.
Each gene expressed to fully subtract one color from the appearance of the snake is in fact a form of albinism. Thus you would not be technically wrong in calling any of the above snakes an albino, even though it still has some colors (or not) you would just be over simplifying.
No combination of these albinisms is actually called a "true albino" by breeders because you have to stack 4+ known mutations to get a truly pigment-less snake (and that's just the known mutations!), and if they happen to carry genes for non-albinism phenotype altering genes you still get funky colors creeping in.

Once I get into allelic and stacking expression genes I can understand better than I can converse about them, some things you can't have happen at the same time without the individual dying or you can't see expressed unless another mutation is present to activate/reveal it, etc.

What you just described to me in lutinos sounds like exactly what a form of albinism is, though the sex linked part is very interesting to me though not described in detail so I can't say anything to it as I haven't seen such genes in snakes.

So a cockatiel lacking grey as a lutino would to my snake keeping terms be amelanistic (lacking only black), a form of albinism, but not axanthic and thus still have yellow. Just my own point of view from having to track stacking genes in snakes and their phenotype outcomes.
So what is the genetic determination difference causing this to not be a form of albinism then?
As described, this is a mutation which removes a pigment which breeds true and thus is genetic. To me, sex linked, restricted to one pigment in a multi-pigmented animal, or not, that's what an albino is.
Understand what I mean? If I'm missing something specific to birds or something I'd love to learn more about it.
Cheers,
Jessie

 

[Habibs Hens]

aren't Itailan and English Quails White

 

[Sycamore27]

aren't Itailan and English Quails White

Italian are lighter, golden or light tan with darker speckles. English are supposed to have a black spot on their heads and from what I've heard are becoming less common with the popularity of A&M, while A&M are white with random patches of wild brown color.
Cheers,
Jessie

 

[shelleybean]

Hi Stellar (or anyone who might be able to help),

I was referred to you by another user. I have some button quails that are dying 2-6 days after hatching. I keep them in the incubator until they are dry & them move them into a one gallon oval fish tank. The tank has a light that hits about 85 (the thermometer is on the other side so I'm assuming they are at around 90 when they are under it). I ground up some game food & gave them water in a 2 litter bottle lid with some fish tank rock in it to keep them from drowning. They are walking around, chirping, eating, drinking & then they seem to loose their energy and pass. Should I put the mom with them? What am I doing wrong? I put find grade sand paper as the lining with the first quail because I heard it helped prevent sprayed legs. I ended up using the other side with the others as the first one got cuts on its feet on it from it (that one did have curled toes on one foot).

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!

Shelley

 

[beakmaster]

I am no expert but I do have some suggestions: I use a 10 gallon fish tank to keep mine in for the first week ( you could keep them in much longer as buttons are smaller than my regular sized quail. Walmart has 10 gal fish tanks for about 12 bucks or so. While you are there pick up a digital thermometer that you can put in the tank for a more accurate reading. They may be getting to hot.By the time the light makes it to the thermometer it has lost much of its heat in the tank and I would bet they are well over 100. Also you need a red bulb on them, a white light will prevent them from sleeping right and red keeps them from pecking each other from what I have heard. I put 3 layers of paper towels in the bottom of the tank to prevent splay leg and it makes it supper easy to clean every couple days. I also try to keep their water in the cooler side of the tank to keep it a bit cooler. Walmart has a fixture with a clamp and a aluminum deflector for the bulb. I clamp mine on one side and tilt the light till I get the digital thermometer to read the temp you want. I adjust mine to 95 for the first week and -5 degrees each week but it may be different for buttons. Good luck.