Free range or enclosed run?

[Henrik Petersson]

I want logic to back up what I think, not someone's opinion. Give me something substantive that can be measured. Thus far I have no reason to conclude you have a window that is any better than mine as to how chickens think.

Logic isn't "something that can be measured". Logic is something that is apparent without measurements. If I state "all apples are red, I have an apple, what color is it?", the logical answer is "red". It doesn't require you to actually see the very apple I have.

Here's the logic: Striving for the feeling of happiness is something that motivates an animal to do what's good for it. As far as a chicken knows, it's good for it to be able to walk wherever it wants to walk. It gives it more exercise, more places to find food, more hiding places, more places to lay eggs and to to dust bathe, and less likelihood of contracting parasites. Hence, chickens ought to feel happier the greater their ability to roam. Chickens in the jungle that were the happiest walking around in a small area likely reproduced less than chickens who roamed over a larger area. Hence, getting to walk where it wants to walk should logically increase its happiness compared to being constrained. It shouldn't be able to understand that it's safer from predators when it's penned up.

And even if they are happier walking around in a small area, what's the logic behind them being happier without even having the option of moving further?

Do you have any logical reason for a chicken to be happier without the ability to walk beyond the chicken run?

 

[centrarchid]

Logic isn't "something that can be measured". Logic is something that is apparent without measurements. If I state "all apples are red, I have an apple, what color is it?", the logical answer is "red". It doesn't require you to actually see the very apple I have.

Here's the logic: Striving for the feeling of happiness is something that motivates an animal to do what's good for it. As far as a chicken knows, it's good for it to be able to walk wherever it wants to walk. It gives it more exercise, more places to find food, more hiding places, more places to lay eggs and to to dust bathe, and less likelihood of contracting parasites. Hence, chickens ought to feel happier the greater their ability to roam. Chickens in the jungle that were the happiest walking around in a small area likely reproduced less than chickens who roamed over a larger area. Hence, getting to walk where it wants to walk should logically increase its happiness compared to being constrained. It shouldn't be able to understand that it's safer from predators when it's penned up.

And even if they are happier walking around in a small area, what's the logic behind them being happier without even having the option of moving further?

Do you have any logical reason for a chicken to be happier without the ability to walk beyond the chicken run?

By trade I am a scientist. Chickens are a hobby I have pursued for most of my life. At every point when it comes to more effective management and well being of my stock, a sound basis is used to make decisions. You are not proving to be a useful source of information.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

By trade I am a scientist. Chickens are a hobby I have pursued for most of my life. At every point when it comes to more effective management and well being of my stock, a sound basis is used to make decisions. You are not proving to be a useful source of information.

Cool, I'm unemployed. Don't see what our trades have anything to do with this. If you're attempting to defeat me by proving that you're more learned than me, I believe that's called "appeal to authority fallacy". Good arguments speak for themselves, whether the one who brings them forth is the village idiot or the queen of Saba.

Well, if we're gonna point fingers, you're not a useful source of information to anybody either, since you refuse to come up with that logic that I was asking for. You didn't even bother to show me how you arrived at my logic being flawed, you settled for stating that it was. Would be nice to hear you come with a substantial argument, but hey, I can see why you don't want to spend more of your free time with this.

 

[No More Empty Nest]

This thread is devolving, I'm going Blooie's route. Cheers everyone.

 

[centrarchid]

This thread is devolving, I'm going Blooie's route. Cheers everyone.

No you are not.

 

[Shadrach]

I know for some this won’t be important but for me it is.
The free range chickens here have a choice. Their coops are always open as is my house and a couple of outhouses. If they preferred a more secure environment they can make the choice to enter these places.
Sometimes they do.
Some people are not in a position to give their chickens a choice, Some people don’t believe a chicken is capable of making the ‘right’ choice.
I believe chickens can and do make choices which often we don’t understand. A chicken shut in a run doesn’t have a choice.

 

[Crow-ded house]

I have a question about this: do any of you have your chooks in an enclosed run ALMOST 24/7?

Mine are all penned all the time. Our first batch three years ago free ranged but we have too many predators. Since penning them, no more losses. The run takes up quiet a lot of space and there are dividers as in two big sections for the two bigger flocks, two smaller sections for the bachelors and a section for Ringo and his two ladies. I have no problems and they are healthy and thriving and their feathering looks fantastic (except for my molting girls). They have dlm and big logs and roosts to play with and they also get piles of leaves in the fall, piles of hay and mowed grass in the summer and whatever natural stuff we find in the winter. I have never seen them pacing unless the other runs see the first run getting treats then they run to the door clamoring “me next me next!”

 

[centrarchid]

Mine are all penned all the time. Our first batch three years ago free ranged but we have to many predators. Since penning them no more losses. The run takes up quiet a lot of space and there are dividers as in two big sections for the two bigger flocks, two smaller sections for the bachelors and a section for Ringo and his two ladies. I have no problems and they are healthy and thriving and their feathering looks fantastic (except for my molting girls). They have dlm and big logs and roosts to play with and they also get piles of leaves in the fall piles of hay and mowed grass in the summer and whatever natural stuff we find in the winter. I have never seen them pacing unless the other runs see the first run getting treats then they run to the door clamoring “me next me next!”

People using the chicken tractor approach, especially with laying hens, will be using a hybrid approach where birds have access to fresh ground on a regular basis. I come close to it with my rooster pens.

 

[Mrs. K]

For most animal husbandry, failure to thrive is the key in the success or failure of animal care. Chickens that are active, eating, with bright eyes and good feathers and are laying well are doing fine.

Chicken with adequate space, good food and clean water thrive. If mine are thriving, I assume they are happy enough. Pecking, attacking, high tensions flocks, do not have enough space, and the flock should be reduced, or the space increased.

Walking father does not make for happy chickens, being chased and harassed by predators does not make for happy chickens, it makes for dead chickens.

Mine are thriving, I am not worrying about if they are happy or not. And actually I have learned a lot from Centachid. Not always do I agree with him in my set up, but he has some very good insight.

Mrs K

 

[Kat2141]

I do both. They have a large yard that is fenced that they can be locked in if I'm not going to be home or if a fox decides to hang around for a few days. They prefer free ranging and are quite vocal about it when in their yard.