Free rein feeding method

[Ital]

@U_Stormcrow Quail are granivores and insectivores but I don’t think they eat meat.
Chilli is helpful for all sorts of issues in humans so might also do them some good and I don’t think it’ll do them any harm.
Metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, pain, cancer, all cause mortality, antibiotic resistant infections.
If they don’t like it I’ll stop giving it to them.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

How would old farmers raise their birds?

Ask them. This is pre "modern" studies beginning late 60s and contnuing thru today. The first commercial chicken feeds appear turn of last century. And if you start punching the old recipes into a modern feed calculator, you will find they compare pretty favorably to the nutritional targets identified in modern study.

Unlike most of the modern "make at home" feed recipes I see on Facebook and Youtube.

"Meat Scrap" btw, is a term of art with a defined meaning. The FDA prohibits its use in modern feed, but when you see menhaden Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Crab Meal, Insect Protein Meals, Porcine Blood Meal, etc in a modern feed, they are serving essentially the same purpose.

Joel Salatin's make at home recipe (which really needs to be used with his pasture system) is one of the few good make at home recipes - it relies on fish meal. Take the fish meal out, and its glorified scratch. Even then, he relies on a commercial nutribalancer to ensure his birds get the vitamins and trace mineral support they need.

 

[Ital]

Two issues here -

One, there's an awful lot known in the world - more than any one person could learn in a life time. You have to pick and choose what to invest time learning. In other words, it is RATIONAL to be ignorant on a wide range of subjects.

Two, plenty of us already have the desired knowledge - but are ignored because it does not comport with one's worldview.



Look at all the people who assume that because their grandparent's chicken, or their great grandparent's chicken, were allegedly raised on just some corn (they weren't) or nothing at all (also untrue), that they can buy a modern bird and expect modern production levels while keeping it in a backyard enclosure or allowing it to free range on a 1/6 to 1/3 acre of monoculture yard (grass) with some kitchen scraps, garden treats, and the occasional sprinkling of whatever fad is currently making the rounds in human culinary.

Uhhh, no.

That's like claiming a Porsche 718 Spyder will do just fine on Henry Ford's uncertain octane petroleum product good for the model T.

To those of us who have spent a few weekends researching the topic, as opposed to merely speculating with people of like opinion and equal inexperience (Facebook, most of Youtube), these comments sound just as ignorant as the car comparison above

Thankfully, ignorance can be fixed - you need only invest some time. No need to reinvent the wheel.

The idea with this method is that it could potentially suit

a modern production bird kept in a backyard enclosure or allowing it to free range on a 1/6 to 1/3 acre of monoculture yard

As well as any other, it’ll work or it won’t. We won’t know without experimenting and sharing our results.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow Quail are granivores and insectivores but I don’t think they eat meat.
Chilli is helpful for all sorts of issues in humans so might also do them some good and I don’t think it’ll do them any harm.
Metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, pain, cancer, all cause mortality, antibiotic resistant infections.
If they don’t like it I’ll stop giving it to them.

You can do it. I've read the studies. I believe its a waste of money, but if it makes you happy, go ahead. Its your entertainment budget, do with it what you will.

Listing a bunch of buzz words doesn't make it true or effective. In nutrition and in medicine, DOSAGE MATTERS.

 

[Ital]

Ask them. This is pre "modern" studies beginning late 60s and contnuing thru today. The first commercial chicken feeds appear turn of last century. And if you start punching the old recipes into a modern feed calculator, you will find they compare pretty favorably to the nutritional targets identified in modern study.

Unlike most of the modern "make at home" feed recipes I see on Facebook and Youtube.

"Meat Scrap" btw, is a term of art with a defined meaning. The FDA prohibits its use in modern feed, but when you see menhaden Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Crab Meal, Insect Protein Meals, Porcine Blood Meal, etc in a modern feed, they are serving essentially the same purpose.

Joel Salatin's make at home recipe (which really needs to be used with his pasture system) is one of the few good make at home recipes - it relies on fish meal. Take the fish meal out, and its glorified scratch. Even then, he relies on a commercial nutribalancer to ensure his birds get the vitamins and trace mineral support they need.

Ask them. This is pre "modern" studies beginning late 60s and contnuing thru today. The first commercial chicken feeds appear turn of last century. And if you start punching the old recipes into a modern feed calculator, you will find they compare pretty favorably to the nutritional targets identified in modern study.

Unlike most of the modern "make at home" feed recipes I see on Facebook and Youtube.

"Meat Scrap" btw, is a term of art with a defined meaning. The FDA prohibits its use in modern feed, but when you see menhaden Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Crab Meal, Insect Protein Meals, Porcine Blood Meal, etc in a modern feed, they are serving essentially the same purpose.

Joel Salatin's make at home recipe (which really needs to be used with his pasture system) is one of the few good make at home recipes - it relies on fish meal. Take the fish meal out, and its glorified scratch. Even then, he relies on a commercial nutribalancer to ensure his birds get the vitamins and trace mineral support they need.

This isn’t a recipe, it’s a method. I’ve included plenty of met for them, question is whether or not they are capable of self regulating their intake.

 

[Ital]

You can do it. I've read the studies. I believe its a waste of money, but if it makes you happy, go ahead. Its your entertainment budget, do with it what you will.

Listing a bunch of buzz words doesn't make it true or effective. In nutrition and in medicine, DOSAGE MATTERS.

And with this method they will have the opportunity to self regulate their own dose.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As well as any other, it’ll work or it won’t. We won’t know without experimenting and sharing our results.

The whole point of knowledge is that we don't need to F around and find out.

We KNOW the typical nutritional needs of a modern chicken, a modern quail.

We also KNOW the nutritional value of the typical grass back yard.

The MATH DOES NOT WORK.

Sort of like we know the typical oxygen needs of a human being, just as we know the typical dissolved oxygen levels of a moving river, a pond, etc. These are things we can look up with great confidence.

and like the human trying to breath underwater, the back yard quail can't meet its needs on a lawn grass monoculture.

The Math doesn't work.

"Hope and Prayer" is not a method.

 

[Geena]

@U_Stormcrow Quail are granivores and insectivores but I don’t think they eat meat.
Chilli is helpful for all sorts of issues in humans so might also do them some good and I don’t think it’ll do them any harm.
Metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, pain, cancer, all cause mortality, antibiotic resistant infections.
If they don’t like it I’ll stop giving it to them.

IME with quail they are only interested in eating seeds and insects and maybe some grains. They will pick a little at certain greens, but completely ignore any and all vegetables I've ever given them. I don't think I've ever given them meat. I'll have to try that and see what happens. But mine always have game bird crumbles available to eat, so yours might act completely different. I'm looking forward to seeing how your experiment plays out.

 

[Somewhere_In_The_Clouds]

Two issues here -

One, there's an awful lot known in the world - more than any one person could learn in a life time. You have to pick and choose what to invest time learning. In other words, it is RATIONAL to be ignorant on a wide range of subjects.

Two, plenty of us already have the desired knowledge - but are ignored because it does not comport with one's worldview.



Look at all the people who assume that because their grandparent's chicken, or their great grandparent's chicken, were allegedly raised on just some corn (they weren't) or nothing at all (also untrue), that they can buy a modern bird and expect modern production levels while keeping it in a backyard enclosure or allowing it to free range on a 1/6 to 1/3 acre of monoculture yard (grass) with some kitchen scraps, garden treats, and the occasional sprinkling of whatever fad is currently making the rounds in human culinary.

Uhhh, no.

That's like claiming a Porsche 718 Spyder will do just fine on Henry Ford's uncertain octane petroleum product good for the model T.

To those of us who have spent a few weekends researching the topic, as opposed to merely speculating with people of like opinion and equal inexperience (Facebook, most of Youtube), these comments sound just as ignorant as the car comparison above

Thankfully, ignorance can be fixed - you need only invest some time. No need to reinvent the wheel.

I don't think you read that as I meant it.
I am here trying to learn and I learn by seeing both side of the argument and coming to my own conclusion based in that, but from what I've seen (and maybe I am looking in the wrong places, which is only here btw) everytime the subject comes up of doing something like this, it gets quickly shut down by comments about chickens being incapable to self regulate, negitively affecting health, etc. I greatly appreciate when people like you take the time to write proper evidence based comments.

I don't for a second agree with that chickens can be raised as our ancestors raised them, because I've seen the facts about how incredibly different chickens now are compared to then. But we've come a long way and (generally) have access to more and better resources then they did.

 

[Ital]

The whole point of knowledge is that we don't need to F around and find out.

We KNOW the typical nutritional needs of a modern chicken, a modern quail.

We also KNOW the nutritional value of the typical grass back yard.

The MATH DOES NOT WORK.

Sort of like we know the typical oxygen needs of a human being, just as we know the typical dissolved oxygen levels of a moving river, a pond, etc. These are things we can look up with great confidence.

and like the human trying to breath underwater, the back yard quail can't meet its needs on a lawn grass monoculture.

The Math doesn't work.

"Hope and Prayer" is not a method.

What we know about their nutritional need is that it varies between birds, at different stages of growth, times of year, and levels of activity.
My hope is that this method will better provide for those requirements.